Stendhal Development Meeting 2010-06-20/Result Log

• Play
  • Manual
  • Beginner's Guide
  • FAQ
  • Ask for Help
  • Events
  • Videos
  • Rules
  • Groups
• World
  • Atlas
  • Dungeons
  • NPCs
  • Levels
  • Creatures
  • Items
  • Quests
  • Games
  • History
  • Achievements
  • Houses
• GMs
  • Administration
  • How to be a GM
  • Scripts
  • Guide for admin
• Contribute
  • Chat
  • Bugs
  • Testing
  • Graphics
  • Sound
  • Item Ideas
  • Atlas
  • Creature Ideas
  • Quest Ideas
  • NPC Ideas
  • Events Ideas
  • Achievement Ideas
  • Open Tasks
• |
• Extend
  • How to add items
  • How to add Creatures
  • How to add quests
  • How to add NPCs
  • How to create maps
• Develop
  • CVS (Source Code)
  • Bugs
  • Meetings
  • Testing
  • Code Design
  • Jenkins
  • Ideas
  • Open Tasks
  • Patches
  • API Reference

• Build & Host
  • Building
  • IDEs
  • Hosting
• |
• Misc.
  • Third Party Projects

• Meeting
• Result Log
• Raw Chat Log

First steps of new players

• Some improvements since the last meeting:
  • Cleaned up the tutorial, it was still talking about double clicking for example.
  • Rats in Semos Village don't run away anymore so it is be easier for new players to kill them.
• There have been suggestions to tell new players about:
  • Players can run faster than most creatures to get away #3020813
  • Player can eat while fighting. #3020115

Voice

• A voiceover might be an effective way to get information to new players (we need a warning if they have no sound)
• An in-character introduction when you create your account was suggested
  • Telling that Semos is a rural town, in need of protection because the army is far away
  • And that you are the one who is going to protect it. Well, if you can convince Hayunn that you are strong enough
• NPCs could give more helpful hints when asked help - we'd need hint ideas (omero)
• Players are not directed to semos farm land by anything currently (but it's a good place for low levels) - a sign?
  • It needs more NPCs - someone hoeing the weeds in the wheat field? (omero)
• Books in the library could help to add information - we need text ideas

Marking dangerous zones

• Marking dangerous zones, or more general, making suggestions to player which zones are good for their level.
• a compas or a thermometer which shows danger of the zone for example
• should dangerous areas be marked using colors on the map?
• Excel file listing number of creatures and their level in every zone: Zone_statistics_without_collision.xls
• A zone is something like int_semos_bank, 0_semos_city (see column A)
• Column D seems to be a good measurement: Density of danger (the sum of the levels of all creatures in there divided by the size of the zone).
• Clever tweaking needed to map those danger levels to player levels.
• I tried a simple approach (column B) of saying hell is good for player level 597. And calculated the other levels on a linear basis. But applying a linear scale did not give good the results. Level seems to be a bit like a log scale.
• Suggestions are welcome using /support or in #arianne on irc.freenode.net. There is a "Chat" link on http://stendhalgame.org

Min level on items

• If new players get a high level item quickly, leveling up may become more difficult (for example because they are not hit anymore and therefore do not get atk/def xp).
• help wanted on creating a list of suggested min levels ({3016679})
• the lowest creature that drops the item can be a starting point for defining minimum levels
• fine tuning needed because:
  • strong items with very low probability
  • NPCs selling items (for example xin blanca selling low level items),
  • quest rewards?
• laguz is going to work on the creature based approach

New dungeons

• killerm proposed the creation of a new Dungeon
• there is a tutorial on how to add maps at HowToUseTiledToCreateStendhalMaps
• Stendhal Creature Ideas explains which information is necessary to create new creatures and HowToAddCreaturesStendhal is the technical counterpart
• please join #arianne on irc to discuss the creation of new dungeons in great detail
• more guidance for players to find areas that are save for them

TODO

First steps of new players / new quests

• [20:32] <laguz> maybe it make sense to split the library in different scopes and add some quests to it
• [20:33] <laguz> so the players are "forced" to read them^^
• [20:33] <omero> ah, on the subject of the library
• [20:33] <laguz> yes
• [20:33] <omero> how about having the 'fetch the book' quest repeatable (sort of pizza delivery reversed)?
• [20:33] <laguz> parts for fight, world etc..or what ever
• [20:33] <omero> it would encourage travelling
• [20:33] <superkym> omero: sure, that's a nice idea, i like that
• [20:34] <hendrikus> Or we could have quests sending players into certain dungeons.
• [20:34] <superkym> the one we already have for ceryl and jynath but add more than just jynath?
• [20:34] <omero> precisely, superkym
• [20:34] <tigertoes> yes
• [20:34] <omero> more 'book holders'
• [20:35] <laguz> but the books should not be just given by the NPC
• [20:35] <laguz> the players have to move and read/look arround
• [20:35] <omero> hidden?
• [20:35] <laguz> maybe a keyword read out of the books
• [20:36] <hendrikus> In that case it may be a good idea to use something else beside books.
• [20:36] <laguz> so the player can tell it the NPC and get the book for the keyword
• [20:36] <omero> there's lots of chest that would be nice if could be opened (maybe booby trapped)
• [20:36] <hendrikus> For example let players collect runes that are hidden in the world.
• [20:36] <madmetzger> that sounds like nice idea for luring players into dungeons
• [20:37] <tigertoes> and once they have gone there, they can be considered safe areas for them?
• [20:37] <hendrikus> Of course it requires some thinking to make sure that players are sent to dungeons approriate for their levels.
• [20:37] <omero> and it would make more thinkfull play instead of bash-the-monster
• [20:37] <hendrikus> yes

New quests

• omero suggested a 'cheque' you can spend at one of the seller npc

Random Teleport

• love_puppet suggested that players are teleported at a random time to an area where they have to do some task.
• should have a good reward
• can catch bots
• may be annoying if you are on a journey with friends

Bank Book

• torvald suggested a bank book, which shows all your bank accounts
• being able to remember where you put things or come up with your own organisation system, is a challenge
• perhaps as a good quest reward but maybe not as an item you always keep

TODO

More storage

• [20:40] <laguz> couldnt we add the option to buy more space for the chests?
• [20:40] <superkym> laguz, we are (slowly) working on containers
• [20:41] <superkym> so that you can buy or get rewarded a bag, a box, etc
• [20:41] <hendrikus> You already get more space as you grow stronger and get access to banks in more cities.
• [20:41] <superkym> Indeed. You'd be surprised how many players don't seem to use their ados chests or the zara house chest at all!
• [20:42] <madmetzger> i think most players are too lazy to walk there or spend scrolls for it
• [20:42] <Oslsachem> in real life people don't want to have many accounts either for basically the same purpose
• [20:42] <torvald> another thing would be to include information from the web site. as for example a creature lexicon, where you can see drops and their likelyhood by clicking on a creature
• [20:43] <laguz> to buy space for semos chest is a good reason to take much of the players money^^
• [20:43] hendrikus has bank accounts at two different banks in real life.
• [20:43] <superkym> i think that changing the size of the chest like that mid-game, mid-player life, would be hard.
• [20:43] <hendrikus> Yes.
• [20:44] <tigertoes> could be something like the locked box thing in banks
• [20:44] <superkym> but you can buy a large box to store items
• [20:44] <superkym> and that can be put in a chest.
• [20:44] <hendrikus> That sounds strange.
• [20:44] <superkym> this is a feature we are working on and just need a little help to complete
• [20:44] <torvald> afolder for scrolls would be nice too
• [20:44] <superkym> oh, ok.
• [20:45] <omero> ah, but wouldn't be nice to have a chest in spots like dungeons? sort of secret place (beside the vault)
• [20:45] <kezman> yes :D
• [20:45] <love_puppet> i was think mabey pets could have bag spaces on them
• [20:45] <superkym> omero: i am not sure why semos bank merchants would themselves put a chest there
• [20:45] <Oslsachem> having portable bags and having bags represented as physical items is interesting
• [20:45] <omero> the spots don't ned to be advertized... not obvious to find
• [20:46] <superkym> omero: maybe just storage spaces under a stone, say, but open to all, not private. i think that storyteller suggested something very similar
• [20:46] <kezman> is like chest in cave but make quest first before using
• [20:46] <superkym> i like that idea, of hideyholes. but again it needs some work.
• [20:46] <Oslsachem> it would be nice that the player was able to carry her chest from the bank to her house for example
• [20:47] <superkym> i cannot imagine a bank chest in a dungeon in real life.
• [20:47] <omero> but a pot, a sack... a smal cache of things for planned trips to lower levels
• [20:47] <storyteller> Well, to the website thing: In my opinion the webside should be made more attractive, also to be made interactive to use by the way while playing
• [20:47] <omero> you have to build up a reserve there...
• [20:47] <Oslsachem> it's just a chest. The bank label is due to the place it is.
• [20:48] <Oslsachem> (where)
• [20:48] <storyteller> Okay
• [20:49] <laguz> i would not add chest to the worls that are bound to a bank
• [20:49] <hendrikus> Can we go to the next topic?
• [20:49] <superkym> We will summarise all these chest and bag and storage ideas on the meeting page
• [20:49] <laguz> players have to leave the dungeons
• [20:49] <superkym> So yes, I think go on, as these ideas wil not be forgotten but they need more thought.
• [20:49] <kezman> area to trade is need in ados bank
• [20:49] <superkym> kezman: noted.

Account and character handling

• hendrik described the changes, which are now summarized at: Stendhal Account Merging
• existing accounts can be merged (see link above)
• I can login my characters "hendrik" and "hendrikus" at the same time even after merging them into one account
• there will be is a new page variant of on the hall of fame: Me and my friends
• merging accounts is optional, it is fine to keep them separated
• server admins can unmerge account, for example in case of password theft
• if someone is password sharing and the other person wants to exploit that, he can simple take all items.
• this has already happened in the past and is no new risk with account merging.

Password Sharing

• rules should be translated (start is done, please help)
• it is prohibited to share passwords for a number of reasons:
• one is that it is very unfair to other players if you let other people make progress on your account.
• that means you didn't make your own progress, someone else did.
• another is that sharing passwords might seem 'ok' between friends, to the friends. but things can turn bad. the friends can steal items from each other and then it makes a support problem when they complain.
• it has wasted a lot of spare time of the developers, therefore it is likely that you get banned
• you should never trust anyone with your password.

Website

• it is possible to change password there
• (next version of Stendhal will have a menu to open the password change page)
• on http://stendhalgame.org there is a "login" link in the upper right hand corner.
• this login button should be made a little bit more eye-catching, perhaps over the "Play now" and over the "Download" button

Testing web starter

• please test the web based starter at https://stendhalgame.org/account/mycharacters.html
• click on your character and wait a bit
• does starting the game work for you?
• if you are not using Webstart normally, it will ask you to dowload on the first try.
• it works for axelf, but he only sees the coffee icon instead of the Stendhal logo icon
• tigertoes is missing box of text

Getting the word out

• I did some research into how people learn about new games and new applications and 'word of mouth' was the best method
• So, anyone who has a blog, or some site they can post links, to tell their friends what they are doing, do please feel free to share about Stendhal :)
• how many players can be on at once?
  • don't worry about player number limits.
  • stendhalgame.org is a real server in a real data center.
  • it can handle a lot more players and traffic than all the other Stendhal clone server hosted on home internet connections.

Translating

Translating rules

• We have started to translate the introduction in various languaes.
• A big thank you to every one who worked on that.
• If you know other languages, please help with that.
• Either by improving already existing translations or adding new ones.
• Oslsachem translated to Spain and offered to do Protuguese
• omera offered to translate the rules to Italian

TODO

Translating game

• [21:14] <Oslsachem> I wonder if having internationalization for the game is feasible
• [21:15] <Oslsachem> or if the grammar system is a problem
• [21:15] <superkym> Oslsacheam, oh, isn't that against what you usually cite as a main rule for stendhal?
• [21:15] <superkym> That all players should see the same thing?
• [21:15] <hendrikus> No, the grammar is not the issue. The problem is that it is a huge amount of work. And everyone who tried has given up after a couple of weeks.
• [21:16] <Oslsachem> of course, kym. But in real life we also see the same things and people can speak with customers in different languages
• [21:16] <Oslsachem> I am not afraid of the work
• [21:21] <Oslsachem> the only worry I have is that the internationalization makes the code more cumbersome, quests for example.
• [21:22] <superkym> I have no idea up front how that would be done or maintained.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> We had a translation system in place already.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> But since nobody ever completed 5%, i removed it.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> I promised to readd it, if there is at least 75% translated.
• [21:23] <hendrikus> But that will probably take half a year of full time work.
• [21:23] <Oslsachem> ok, are the instructions for translating available somewhere?
• [21:23] <Oslsachem> so much text?
• [21:23] <hendrikus> Oslsachem, i can look for it after the meeting.
• [21:24] <Oslsachem> anyway, it would need the commitment of people who writes new content to keep it going.
• [21:24] <superkym> Commitment?
• [21:24] <hendrikus> I cannot provide a spanish translation for stuff I add.
• [21:25] <superkym> What if the people who write new content do not speak every translated language?
• [21:25] <Oslsachem> I mean writing the code using templates or whatever
• [21:25] <hendrikus> That is as easy as putting _( and ) around every string.
• [21:26] <Oslsachem> that's the difficult part?
• [21:26] <hendrikus> The difficult part is to stay commited to translate it.
• [21:27] <tigertoes> exactly
• [21:27] <hendrikus> As I said all people gave up after a couple of weeks.
• [21:27] <Oslsachem> the whole tranlation is stored in a single file then?
• [21:28] <hendrikus> Oslsachem we should discuss that at the next meeting or in #arianne.
• [21:28] <Oslsachem> ok, I'll give it a try and perhaps other will follow in other languages.

Closing meeting

• I like to thank everyone for attending.
• We will put up a chatlog and a summary on the wiki and put a link on http://stendhalgame.org
• Feel free to join us in #arianne on freenode at any time.