Stendhal Development Meeting 2010-06-20/Result Log: Difference between revisions

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 {{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}}
 {{Stendhal Development Meeting 2010-06-08}}
-= TODO =
 == First steps of new players ==
+* Some improvements since the last meeting:
-*[20:01] <hendrikus> But we did a few changes to the world in the last two weeks.
-*[20:01] <hendrikus> We cleaned up the tutorial, it was still talking about double clicking for example.
+** Cleaned up the tutorial, it was still talking about double clicking for example.
-*[20:01] <hendrikus> And rats in Semos Village don't run away anymore.
+** Rats in Semos Village don't run away anymore so it is be easier for new players to kill them.
-*[20:02] <hendrikus> So it should be easier for new player to kill them.
 == Marking dangerous zones ==
+* Marking dangerous zones, or more general, making suggestions to player which zones are good for their level.
-*[20:02] <hendrikus> Another topic was marking dangerous zones.
+* Excel file listing number of creatures and their level in every zone: [http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/images/9/99/Zone_statistics_without_collision.xls Zone_statistics_without_collision.xls]
-*[20:02] <hendrikus> Or more general, makng suggestions to player which zones are good for their level.
+* A zone is something like int_semos_bank, 0_semos_city (see column A)
-*[20:03] <hendrikus> There has some work being done on statistics: http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/images/9/99/Zone_statistics_without_collision.xls
-*[20:03] <hendrikus> That is an excel file which does some math about the number and levels of creatures in every zone.
+* Column D seems to be a good measurement: Density of danger (the sum of the levels of all creatures in there divided by the size of the zone).
+* Clever tweaking needed to map those danger levels to player levels.
-*[20:03] <hendrikus> I think it is pretty good at telling which zones are dangerous and which zones are safe.
+* I tried a simple approach (column B) of saying hell is good for player level 597. And calculated the other levels on a linear basis. But applying a linear scale did not give good the results. Level seems to be a bit like a log scale.
-*[20:04] <hendrikus> But it needs some clever tweeking to map those danger levels to player levels.
+* Suggestions are welcome using /support or in #arianne on irc.freenode.net. There is a "Chat" link on http://stendhalgame.org
-*[20:04] <hendrikus> I tried a simple approach of saying hell is good for player level 597. And caluclated the other levels on a linear basis.
-*[20:04] <hendrikus> But the results are not good.
-*[20:05] <hendrikus> So if someone has some clever idea, please let us know.
+= TODO =
-*[20:05] <tigertoes> would almost have to be a visit and see thing
-*[20:06] <tigertoes> perhaps on test machine change lvl and then visit zone
-*[20:06] <hendrikus> Oh, you can use /support. Or preferable: You can reach the developers and contributors in #arianne on irc.freenode.net. There is a "Chat" link on http://stendhalgame.org
-*[20:06] <laguz> what means "not good"?
-*[20:07] <hendrikus> laguz, I guess aplying a linear scale was not a good aproach.
-*[20:07] <omero> for zone, it is intended 'quadrant' of the atlas or a radius around the player?
-*[20:07] <superkym> it did not give a good match when checking some values against experienced player's opinions
-*[20:07] <superkym> zone means for example 0_semos_city normally
-*[20:07] <hendrikus> In that excel page, you can see the name of the zone in column A. Column D has the sum of the levels of all creaturs in there devided by the size of the zone.
-*[20:08] <hendrikus> So column D seems to be a good measurement.
-*[20:08] <omero> density of danger...
-*[20:08] <hendrikus> The attempt to map it to player level in column B, did not work out.
-*[20:08] <love_puppet> why was it devided by the size of the map?
-*[20:09] <hendrikus> If there are lots of creatures in a small spot, that attack you at the same time, it is way more dangerous.
-*[20:09] <omero> a pack of dogs will kill a lion
-*[20:09] <hendrikus> If there is the same number of creatures of the same level, but they are spread out in a huge zone, it is less risky.
-*[20:09] <hendrikus> yes.
-*[20:10] <kiheru> also creature level likely needs a slightly higher weight than linear
 == First steps of new players ==
@@ Line 146: / Line 126: @@
 *[20:31] <hendrikus> There is a tutorial on how to add maps at http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/HowToUseTiledToCreateStendhalMaps
 *[20:31] <hendrikus> And if you join #arianne ("Chat" link on http://stendhalgame.org) we can discuss that in great detail).
+*[20:46] <killerm> I would propose to take into account the proposal for the creation of new places and creatures (and for players who ask where they can leveliar the areas that are not safe for them to become blocked)
+*[20:48] <hendrikus> killerm, yes. We should talk about that later, because I guess that cannot be discusssed in 10 minutes.
 == First steps of new players ==
@@ Line 251: / Line 233: @@
 *[20:46] <kezman> is like chest in cave but make quest first before using
 *[20:46] <superkym> i like that idea, of hideyholes. but again it needs some work.
-*[20:46] <killerm> I would propose to take into account the proposal for the creation of new places and creatures (and for players who ask where they can leveliar the areas that are not safe for them to become blocked)
 *[20:46] <Oslsachem> it would be nice that the player was able to carry her chest from the bank to her house for example
 *[20:47] <superkym> i cannot imagine a bank chest in a dungeon in real life.
@@ Line 259: / Line 240: @@
 *[20:47] <Oslsachem> it's just a chest. The bank label is due to the place it is.
 *[20:48] <Oslsachem> (where)
-*[20:48] <hendrikus> killerm, yes. We should talk about that later, because I guess that cannot be discusssed in 10 minutes.
-*[20:48] <hendrikus> storyteller, i am going to say something about the website next.
 *[20:48] <storyteller> Okay
 *[20:49] <laguz> i would not add chest to the worls that are bound to a bank
@@ Line 353: / Line 332: @@
 *[21:02] <hendrikus> Well, it should be obvious to everyone that you don't give your passwords away.
 *[21:03] <blazins> but if there is because they trust
-*[21:03] <superkym> yes, to be honest isn't it the first rule of internet use?
 == Translating rules ==
+*[21:03] <superkym> yes, to be honest isn't it the first rule of internet use?
 *[21:03] <tigertoes> i agree hendrikus, but not everyone agrees, there are many cultures here, not all agree
 *[21:03] <superkym> for me it is 'ingrained' just like 'don't touch this hot pan'
@@ Line 371: / Line 350: @@
 *[21:04] <killerm> in a very short time I change of state are therefore my IP `there is not any problem CAMVIA
 *[21:04] <tigertoes> ok
-*[21:05] <hendrikus> Okay, there is one last topic for today.
-*[21:05] <hendrikus> I know we are already late.
 *[21:05] <Oslsachem> I can give it a try to portuguese, french or italian with the help of a translator :)
 *[21:05] <hendrikus> But I like to ask for some testers.
@@ Line 395: / Line 372: @@
 *[21:08] <hendrikus> Not now, because the current version cannot handle that.
 *[21:08] <superkym> so here is maybe one advantage to merging your characters
-== Getting the word out ==
-*[21:09] <tigertoes> i saw something about advertising for new players, is that still to be covered today?
 *[21:09] <hendrikus> That is a beta test.
 *[21:09] <hendrikus> So please don't tell it new players just yet.
-*[21:10] <superkym> The advertising issue was a bit different
-*[21:10] <hendrikus> It is about getting the word out about Stendhal. So that more people know about it.
-*[21:10] <superkym> It was pretty short: I did some research into how people learn about new games and new applications and 'word of mouth' was the best method
-*[21:11] <tigertoes> oh f
 *[21:11] <axelf> hendrik: there seems to be a littlte difference between login using this character page and the old webstart: now i see only the coffee icon instead of the stendhal logo icon
-*[21:11] <Oslsachem> what's the position about internationalization?
-*[21:11] <superkym> So, anyone who has a blog, or some site they can post links, to tell their friends what they are doing, do please feel free to share about Stendhal :)
 *[21:11] <tigertoes> i am on through that site and now i have no box of text
+*[21:13] <tigertoes> sorry, i guess i will try that again and write bug rpt
+== Getting the word out ==
+* I did some research into how people learn about new games and new applications and 'word of mouth' was the best method
+*  So, anyone who has a blog, or some site they can post links, to tell their friends what they are doing, do please feel free to share about Stendhal :)
+*[21:14] <tigertoes> i wanted to say something about the advertsing for new playuers, i saw you said something kym but didnt see what
+*[21:16] <superkym> tigertoes, it was a comment that 'word of mouth' seems to be really successful, So to advertise to more people I would ask that people who have blogs or other sites that they can post text or oi links on would share the game :)
+*[21:16] <tigertoes> oh, i was gonna say something on facebook and try to encourage them to try as there are so many problems now with facebook and their apps
+*[21:17] <tigertoes> but how many players can be on at once?
+*[21:17] <superkym> tigertoes: don't worry about player number limits.
+*[21:18] <hendrikus> stendhalgame.org is a real server in a real data center.
+*[21:19] <hendrikus> It can handle a lot more players and traffic than all the other Stendhal clone server hosted on home internet connections.
+== Translating game ==
+*[21:11] <Oslsachem> what's the position about internationalization?
 *[21:12] <superkym> Oslsachem, sorry, I do not know what you mean.
 *[21:12] <Oslsachem> because for many players, especially the younger ones, the english is a big hurdle
-*[21:12] <laguz> that is true
 *[21:12] <hendrikus> We have started to translate the introduction in various languaes.
 *[21:12] <hendrikus> A big thank you to every one who worked on that.
 *[21:13] <hendrikus> If you know other languages, please help with that.
 *[21:13] <hendrikus> Either by improving already existing translations or adding new ones.
-*[21:13] <tigertoes> sorry, i guess i will try that again and write bug rpt
 *[21:14] <hendrikus> For example the text below the screenshots are still open on some transaltions.
-*[21:14] <tigertoes> i wanted to say something about the advertsing for new playuers, i saw you said something kym but didnt see what
 *[21:14] <Oslsachem> I wonder if having internationalization for the game is feasible
-*[21:15] <killerm> ok
 *[21:15] <hendrikus> For the complete game, it is not.
 *[21:15] <Oslsachem> or if the grammar system is a problem
 *[21:15] <superkym> Oslsacheam, oh, isn't that against what you usually cite as a main rule for stendhal?
 *[21:15] <superkym> That all players should see the same thing?
-*[21:15] <killerm> bye alls
-*[21:15] <killerm> thx
 *[21:15] <hendrikus> No, the problem is that it is a huge amount of work. And everyone who tried has given up after a couple of weeks.
 *[21:16] <hendrikus> No -> the grammar is not the issue.
 *[21:16] <Oslsachem> of course, kym. But in real life we also see the same things and people can speak with customers in different languages
-*[21:16] <superkym> tigertoes, it was a comment that 'word of mouth' seems to be really successful, So to advertise to more people I would ask that people who have blogs or other sites that they can post text or oi links on would share the game :)
 *[21:16] <Oslsachem> I am not afraid of the work
-*[21:16] <tigertoes> oh, i was gonna say something on facebook and try to encourage them to try as there are so many problems now with facebook and their apps
-*[21:17] <tigertoes> but how many players can be on at once?
-*[21:17] <superkym> tigertoes: don't worry about player number limits.
-*[21:18] <blazins> in taringa or yahoo just could be
-*[21:18] <hendrikus> stendhalgame.org is a real server in a real data center.
-*[21:19] <tigertoes> i know, but all it takes is someone to complain for facebook to ban a link
-*[21:19] <hendrikus> It can handle a lot more players and traffic than all the other Stendhal clone server hosted on home internet connections.
-*[21:19] <tigertoes> there are a few former plalyers that could have done that
-*[21:19] <superkym> tigertoes, i am not worried by that, but maybe it shows facebook isn't a great place to advertise
-*[21:19] <tigertoes> i can think of perhaps 3 now
-*[21:20] <tigertoes> i guess so, but i know there are those there who would love it
-*[21:20] <superkym> then use your judgement, you had a solution, that is fine :)
-*[21:20] <tigertoes> yep
-== Translating game ==
 *[21:21] <Oslsachem> the only worry I have is that the internationalization makes the code more cumbersome, quests for example.
 *[21:22] <superkym> I have no idea up front how that would be done or maintained.
@@ Line 467: / Line 428: @@
 *[21:26] <hendrikus> The difficult part is to stay commited to translate it.
 *[21:27] <tigertoes> exactly
-*[21:27] <hendrikus> As I said most people gave up after a couple of weeks.
+*[21:27] <hendrikus> As I said all people gave up after a couple of weeks.
-*[21:27] <hendrikus> well not "most", "all".
 *[21:27] <Oslsachem> the whole tranlation is stored in a single file then?
 *[21:28] <hendrikus> Oslsachem we should discuss that at the next meeting or in #arianne.
-*[21:28] <hendrikus> We are already 30 minutes over time.
 *[21:28] <Oslsachem> ok, I'll give it a try and perhaps other will follow in other languages.
-*[21:28] <Oslsachem> ok
 *[21:28] <hendrikus> I like to thank everyone for attending.
 *[21:29] <hendrikus> We will put up a chatlog and a summary on the wiki and put a link on http://stendhalgame.org
-*[21:29] <tigertoes> thanks
 *[21:29] <hendrikus> Feel free to join us in #arianne at any time.
-*[21:31] hendrikus waves: Bye, bye.
-*[21:31] <laguz> bye
-*[21:31] <tigertoes> bye :)

Stendhal Development Meeting 2010-06-20/Result Log: Difference between revisions

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