Stendhal Development Meeting 2010-06-20/Result Log

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First steps of new players

• Some improvements since the last meeting:
  • Cleaned up the tutorial, it was still talking about double clicking for example.
  • Rats in Semos Village don't run away anymore so it is be easier for new players to kill them.
• There have been suggestions to tell new players about:
  • Players can run faster than most creatures to get away #3020813
  • Player can eat while fighting. #3020115

Voice

• A voiceover might be an effective way to get information to new players (we need a warning if they have no sound)
• An in-character introduction when you create your account was suggested
  • Telling that Semos is a rural town, in need of protection because the army is far away
  • And that you are the one who is going to protect it. Well, if you can convince Hayunn that you are strong enough
• NPCs could give more helpful hints when asked help - we'd need hint ideas (omero)
• Players are not directed to semos farm land by anything currently (but it's a good place for low levels) - a sign?
  • It needs more NPCs - someone hoeing the weeds in the wheat field? (omero)
• Books in the library could help to add information - we need text ideas

Marking dangerous zones

• Marking dangerous zones, or more general, making suggestions to player which zones are good for their level.
• a compas or a thermometer which shows danger of the zone for example
• should dangerous areas be marked using colors on the map?
• Excel file listing number of creatures and their level in every zone: Zone_statistics_without_collision.xls
• A zone is something like int_semos_bank, 0_semos_city (see column A)
• Column D seems to be a good measurement: Density of danger (the sum of the levels of all creatures in there divided by the size of the zone).
• Clever tweaking needed to map those danger levels to player levels.
• I tried a simple approach (column B) of saying hell is good for player level 597. And calculated the other levels on a linear basis. But applying a linear scale did not give good the results. Level seems to be a bit like a log scale.
• Suggestions are welcome using /support or in #arianne on irc.freenode.net. There is a "Chat" link on http://stendhalgame.org

Min level on items

• If new players get a high level item quickly, leveling up may become more difficult (for example because they are not hit anymore and therefore do not get atk/def xp).
• help wanted on creating a list of suggested min levels ({3016679})
• the lowest creature that drops the item can be a starting point for defining minimum levels
• fine tuning needed because:
  • strong items with very low probability
  • NPCs selling items (for example xin blanca selling low level items),
  • quest rewards?
• laguz is going to work on the creature based approach

New dungeons

• killerm proposed the creation of a new Dungeon
• there is a tutorial on how to add maps at HowToUseTiledToCreateStendhalMaps
• Stendhal Creature Ideas explains which information is necessary to create new creatures and HowToAddCreaturesStendhal is the technical counterpart
• please join #arianne on irc to discuss the creation of new dungeons in great detail
• more guidance for players to find areas that are save for them

TODO

First steps of new players / new quests

• [20:32] <laguz> maybe it make sense to split the library in different scopes and add some quests to it
• [20:33] <laguz> so the players are "forced" to read them^^
• [20:33] <omero> ah, on the subject of the library
• [20:33] <laguz> yes
• [20:33] <omero> how about having the 'fetch the book' quest repeatable (sort of pizza delivery reversed)?
• [20:33] <laguz> parts for fight, world etc..or what ever
• [20:33] <omero> it would encourage travelling
• [20:33] <superkym> omero: sure, that's a nice idea, i like that
• [20:34] <hendrikus> Or we could have quests sending players into certain dungeons.
• [20:34] <superkym> the one we already have for ceryl and jynath but add more than just jynath?
• [20:34] <omero> precisely, superkym
• [20:34] <tigertoes> yes
• [20:34] <omero> more 'book holders'
• [20:35] <laguz> but the books should not be just given by the NPC
• [20:35] <laguz> the players have to move and read/look arround
• [20:35] <omero> hidden?
• [20:35] <laguz> maybe a keyword read out of the books
• [20:36] <hendrikus> In that case it may be a good idea to use something else beside books.
• [20:36] <laguz> so the player can tell it the NPC and get the book for the keyword
• [20:36] <omero> there's lots of chest that would be nice if could be opened (maybe booby trapped)
• [20:36] <hendrikus> For example let players collect runes that are hidden in the world.
• [20:36] <madmetzger> that sounds like nice idea for luring players into dungeons
• [20:37] <tigertoes> and once they have gone there, they can be considered safe areas for them?
• [20:37] <hendrikus> Of course it requires some thinking to make sure that players are sent to dungeons approriate for their levels.
• [20:37] <omero> and it would make more thinkfull play instead of bash-the-monster
• [20:37] <hendrikus> yes

New quests

• omero suggested a 'cheque' you can spend at one of the seller npc

Random Teleport

• [20:38] <love_puppet> when your playing the game you could be ramdom teleported to an area and asked to do some thing
• [20:39] <hendrikus> love_puppet at a random time? Or to a random place when doing something like using an orb?
• [20:39] <love_puppet> just ramdom
• [20:39] <love_puppet> it was on another game to get people who where botting
• [20:40] <love_puppet> but for the peoople at thare computer it was good
• [20:40] <love_puppet> money items just good thing for doing simple stuff like killing a rat
• [20:40] <love_puppet> some thing any player could do
• [20:41] <love_puppet> but it kept u at your computer cus if u dident complete it in the time amount u where sent back to a random area (a town) and u didenty ger the items
• [20:41] <love_puppet> but it was worth it
• [20:41] <love_puppet> the last one that happened to be i was asked to open the blue chest
• [20:42] <love_puppet> and i grew 2 lvls
• [20:42] <love_puppet> and when u where done u where sent right back to where u where
• [20:42] <love_puppet> as the tasks dident take long at all to complete
• [20:40] <hendrikus> Sounds rather annoying to me when you are traveling with a group of friends and random people disappear.

Bank Book

• [20:38] <torvald> well, for example a bank book, where you can see all your bank accounts. saves you from making screen shots
• [20:39] <banki> or a mount for fast traveling?
• [20:39] <superkym> hmmm but i try to avoid things which actually make the game rather too easy
• [20:39] <superkym> being able to remember where you put things or come up with your own organisation system, is a challenge i like
• [20:39] <superkym> like in real life.
• [20:40] <superkym> it could be a good quest reward but maybe not as an item you *always* keep
• [20:40] <torvald> in real life you have bank books ;-)
• [20:40] <superkym> torvald: oops, i am not organised enough in real life :P

More storage

• [20:40] <laguz> couldnt we add the option to buy more space for the chests?
• [20:40] <superkym> laguz, we are (slowly) working on containers
• [20:41] <superkym> so that you can buy or get rewarded a bag, a box, etc
• [20:41] <hendrikus> You already get more space as you grow stronger and get access to banks in more cities.
• [20:41] <superkym> Indeed. You'd be surprised how many players don't seem to use their ados chests or the zara house chest at all!
• [20:42] <madmetzger> i think most players are too lazy to walk there or spend scrolls for it
• [20:42] <Oslsachem> in real life people don't want to have many accounts either for basically the same purpose
• [20:42] <torvald> another thing would be to include information from the web site. as for example a creature lexicon, where you can see drops and their likelyhood by clicking on a creature
• [20:43] <laguz> to buy space for semos chest is a good reason to take much of the players money^^
• [20:43] hendrikus has bank accounts at two different banks in real life.
• [20:43] <superkym> i think that changing the size of the chest like that mid-game, mid-player life, would be hard.
• [20:43] <hendrikus> Yes.
• [20:44] <tigertoes> could be something like the locked box thing in banks
• [20:44] <superkym> but you can buy a large box to store items
• [20:44] <superkym> and that can be put in a chest.
• [20:44] <hendrikus> That sounds strange.
• [20:44] <superkym> this is a feature we are working on and just need a little help to complete
• [20:44] <torvald> afolder for scrolls would be nice too
• [20:44] <superkym> oh, ok.
• [20:45] <omero> ah, but wouldn't be nice to have a chest in spots like dungeons? sort of secret place (beside the vault)
• [20:45] <kezman> yes :D
• [20:45] <love_puppet> i was think mabey pets could have bag spaces on them
• [20:45] <superkym> omero: i am not sure why semos bank merchants would themselves put a chest there
• [20:45] <Oslsachem> having portable bags and having bags represented as physical items is interesting
• [20:45] <omero> the spots don't ned to be advertized... not obvious to find
• [20:46] <superkym> omero: maybe just storage spaces under a stone, say, but open to all, not private. i think that storyteller suggested something very similar
• [20:46] <kezman> is like chest in cave but make quest first before using
• [20:46] <superkym> i like that idea, of hideyholes. but again it needs some work.
• [20:46] <Oslsachem> it would be nice that the player was able to carry her chest from the bank to her house for example
• [20:47] <superkym> i cannot imagine a bank chest in a dungeon in real life.
• [20:47] <omero> but a pot, a sack... a smal cache of things for planned trips to lower levels
• [20:47] <storyteller> Well, to the website thing: In my opinion the webside should be made more attractive, also to be made interactive to use by the way while playing
• [20:47] <omero> you have to build up a reserve there...
• [20:47] <Oslsachem> it's just a chest. The bank label is due to the place it is.
• [20:48] <Oslsachem> (where)
• [20:48] <storyteller> Okay
• [20:49] <laguz> i would not add chest to the worls that are bound to a bank
• [20:49] <hendrikus> Can we go to the next topic?
• [20:49] <superkym> We will summarise all these chest and bag and storage ideas on the meeting page
• [20:49] <laguz> players have to leave the dungeons
• [20:49] <superkym> So yes, I think go on, as these ideas wil not be forgotten but they need more thought.
• [20:49] <kezman> area to trade is need in ados bank
• [20:49] <superkym> kezman: noted.

Account and character handling

• hendrik described the changes, which are now summarized at: Stendhal Account Merging
• existing accounts can be merged (see link above)
• I can login my characters "hendrik" and "hendrikus" at the same time even after merging them into one account
• there will be is a new page variant of on the hall of fame: Me and my friends
• merging accounts is optional, it is fine to keep them separated
• server admins can unmerge account, for example in case of password theft
• if someone is password sharing and the other person wants to exploit that, he can simple take all items.
• this has already happened in the past and is no new risk with account merging.

• [20:59] <omero> is it possible to change password?
• [21:00] <love_puppet> yes on the website
• [21:00] <hendrikus> On http://stendhalgame.org there is a "login" link in the upper right hand corner.
• [21:01] <storyteller> This login button should be made a little bit more eye-catching
• [21:01] <storyteller> I would prefer it in over the "Play now" and over the "Download" button

• [21:01] <tigertoes> also, we should have translations about password sharing
• [21:01] <tigertoes> that way we know it is in a language that the players understand
• [21:02] <Oslsachem> it is interesting to translate all the rules, tigertoes
• [21:02] <tigertoes> all rules would be good, but upassword sharing is very critical

• [21:01] <superkym> blazins, it is prohibited to share passwords for a number of reasons. I will try to list some
• [21:01] <superkym> blazins, one is that it is very unfair to other players if you let other people make progress on your account.
• [21:01] <superkym> blazins, that means you didn't make your own progress, someone else did.
• [21:02] <superkym> balzins, another is that sharing passwords might seem 'ok' between friends, to the friends. but things can turn bad. the friends can steal items from each other and then it make sa support problem when they complain.
• [21:02] <superkym> blazins, it has wasted a lot of time. you should never trust anyone with your password.
• [21:02] <hendrikus> Well, it should be obvious to everyone that you don't give your passwords away.

Testing web starter

• please test the web based starter at https://stendhalgame.org/account/mycharacters.html
• click on your character and wait a bit
• does starting the game work for you?
• if you are not using webstart normally, it will ask you to dowload on the first try.
• it works for axelf, but he only sees the coffee icon instead of the stendhal logo icon
• tigertoes is missing box of text

Getting the word out

• I did some research into how people learn about new games and new applications and 'word of mouth' was the best method
• So, anyone who has a blog, or some site they can post links, to tell their friends what they are doing, do please feel free to share about Stendhal :)
• how many players can be on at once?
  • don't worry about player number limits.
  • stendhalgame.org is a real server in a real data center.
  • it can handle a lot more players and traffic than all the other Stendhal clone server hosted on home internet connections.

Translating

Translating rules

• We have started to translate the introduction in various languaes.
• A big thank you to every one who worked on that.
• If you know other languages, please help with that.
• Either by improving already existing translations or adding new ones.
• Oslsachem translated to Spain and offered to do Protuguese
• omera offered to translate the rules to Italian

TODO

Translating game

• [21:14] <Oslsachem> I wonder if having internationalization for the game is feasible
• [21:15] <Oslsachem> or if the grammar system is a problem
• [21:15] <superkym> Oslsacheam, oh, isn't that against what you usually cite as a main rule for stendhal?
• [21:15] <superkym> That all players should see the same thing?
• [21:15] <hendrikus> No, the grammar is not the issue. The problem is that it is a huge amount of work. And everyone who tried has given up after a couple of weeks.
• [21:16] <Oslsachem> of course, kym. But in real life we also see the same things and people can speak with customers in different languages
• [21:16] <Oslsachem> I am not afraid of the work
• [21:21] <Oslsachem> the only worry I have is that the internationalization makes the code more cumbersome, quests for example.
• [21:22] <superkym> I have no idea up front how that would be done or maintained.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> We had a translation system in place already.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> But since nobody ever completed 5%, i removed it.
• [21:22] <hendrikus> I promised to readd it, if there is at least 75% translated.
• [21:23] <hendrikus> But that will probably take half a year of full time work.
• [21:23] <Oslsachem> ok, are the instructions for translating available somewhere?
• [21:23] <Oslsachem> so much text?
• [21:23] <hendrikus> Oslsachem, i can look for it after the meeting.
• [21:24] <Oslsachem> anyway, it would need the commitment of people who writes new content to keep it going.
• [21:24] <superkym> Commitment?
• [21:24] <hendrikus> I cannot provide a spanish translation for stuff I add.
• [21:25] <superkym> What if the people who write new content do not speak every translated language?
• [21:25] <Oslsachem> I mean writing the code using templates or whatever
• [21:25] <hendrikus> That is as easy as putting _( and ) around every string.
• [21:26] <Oslsachem> that's the difficult part?
• [21:26] <hendrikus> The difficult part is to stay commited to translate it.
• [21:27] <tigertoes> exactly
• [21:27] <hendrikus> As I said all people gave up after a couple of weeks.
• [21:27] <Oslsachem> the whole tranlation is stored in a single file then?
• [21:28] <hendrikus> Oslsachem we should discuss that at the next meeting or in #arianne.
• [21:28] <Oslsachem> ok, I'll give it a try and perhaps other will follow in other languages.

Closing meeting

• I like to thank everyone for attending.
• We will put up a chatlog and a summary on the wiki and put a link on http://stendhalgame.org
• Feel free to join us in #arianne on freenode at any time.