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Line 1: {{Navigation for Stendhal Top\|Developing}} ~~The raw chat log is at [[Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22/Chat]].~~ {{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}} {{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}} ~~{{TODO\|Creation of this page is in progress. '''Note:''' This is not a real chat log. Comments have been removed, sorted and edited.}}~~ == Mixed Things == * /ignore currently only works for /tell but it should work for public chat, too - this is being worked on ({{tracker\|2872361}}) * black pearl image * "Strongest player" on website should be sorted by karma as second sort criterion because of the max level limit ({{tracker\|2905264}}). * /ignore currently only works for /tell but it should work for public chat, too * It was suggested that animal masks from Fidorea in ados could stay longer than 2 hours, for example for 2 days. Perhaps with additional fees. * suggestions to increase the max level are not easily implementable. * blackfinix offered to update the [[StendhalManual]] and embed the referenced images by uploading them to the Wiki (<del>{{tracker\|2892214}}</del> ''fixed by kiheru and kymara''). * npc to sell armors to * Enabled and minimized keyring pops up on every zone change (<del>{{tracker\|1815905}}</del> fixed) * Animal masks from Fidorea in ados should stay longer than 2 hours, for example for 2 days. Perhaps with additional fees. * It was requested to have an npc to sell armors to which you can not sell to other npcs * blackfinix offered to update the [[StendhalManual]] and embed the referenced images by uploading them to the Wiki. * The black pearl image could be improved (done; a new image in CVS now) * Enabled and minimized keyring pops up on every zone change ([http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1815905&group_id=1111&atid=101111 bug #1815905]) * An NPC for offering items to other players in being worked on == ~~Pets~~Mute == * love_puppet: i believe that the pet system could be better that they are more helpful and not such a burden * vomit: i think it should work for public chat too * love_puppet: well right now a cat follows and a dragon can only take on a rat * superkym: love_puppet for pets, pets are not very 'helpful' in real life. they are a friend or a play thing. they're not there to kill much for you :) * love_puppet: mabey thare could be a leveling system for pets * vomit: they should grow and get stronger * humana: I don't like strong cat's.. * humana: I like little sweet cats :) * love_puppet: well mabey dragons could lvl * blackfinix: yes as it is i dont see many pets in use * blackfinix: because they are more annoying than helpful * vomit: pets should eat lesser * hendrik: So we would have two types of pets? The cute ones and the fighters? * superkym: love_puppet we could certainly see if it's possible. i have another suggestion too: what if you could leave them in your house safely? * superkym: so you can have the cute pet but not with you all the time * love_puppet: cant you do that at the moment? * miasma: good idea. * superkym: no it would die if the server restarted * blackfinix: or even have a public kennel you can pay for * miasma: nad i have no rats at my home... a dragon or a cat would starving to death, right? * bluekiller: ok * love_puppet: no if no one is on the screen with it it stops eating * humana: bluekiller we don't need that now. I think. ~~* superkym: miasma they dont' get hungry when noone is around * g~~ hendrik: I like that idea of a kennel. * bluekiller: humana okay sorry * superkym: katinka can already look after pets * miasma: oh okay :D * tigertoes: kennel is very nice idea * superkym: at the sanctuary * tigertoes: yes * superkym: but she would take them forever * tigertoes: oh * yoriy: `hi osl * humana: hi oslachem :) * Mayor Sakhs: Welcome citizen! Do you need help? * tigertoes: howdy osl * Oslsachem: hi jester * plassy: ?? * Mayor Sakhs: Have a good day and enjoy your stay! * superkym: maybe some extension to her, or a similar thing - where you can get your pet back, however i don't think you shoudl get them back fully fat for free. at the sanctuary they are fed ;) * blackfinix: yes that would be easier than creating a new kennel * tigertoes: well, it is typical to pay boarding fees when you take pet to kennel * love_puppet: mabey they are sent to a room that no ones see so they dont starve and they done eat * bluekiller: Ich wär für einen neuen Balrog * hendrik: They should take care of the pet. Getting it all fat does not sound healthy. ~~* love_puppet: dont~~ storyteller: Hmm... maybe you have to pay for them to be fed... * hendrik: So I guess a good idea would be to keep them the way they are when they are given to the Sanctury. * humana: bluekiller .. say that in engish! * love_puppet: could be a higher fee to get them out if they where under 100lb when placed in * bluekiller: a new balrog * tigertoes: yes * blackfinix: and they are euthanized after a period of inactivity * bluekiller: Ich muss off * love_puppet: you know like your pet ate more than the other so i will have to charge you more for the return of your pet * vomit: will the map become extended with the next release? * superkym: vomit, the world is already very large and we focus on improving existing zones rather than adding new ones * pepsz: could have a dog with pet * kiheru: it could be possible to charge for the time spent in the kennel. that approximates the amount of food needed * love_puppet: or mabey a wolf? * hendrik: blackfinix, this is mostly a technically issue. If we save the kenneled pets as part of the player object, we can keep them forever. Only if we store it as part of the wildlife zone, there would be a limit. * superkym: would you have liked to see an extended map, vomit? why? * blackfinix: a wolf would be awesome * /mute should to be remembered across restarts (<del>{{tracker\|2880973}}</del> fixed). * plassy: does nobody know abaut the new rp-system? i read about anywhere at stendhal website. this would be a real improvement! * the command could be more user friendly: /mute instead of the confusing "/sound mute on" and "/sound mute off" (<del>{{tracker\|2905154}}</del> fixed). * hendrik: plassy, that is a large change, for the next section of the meeting. * blackfinix: i've read the ideas about the new rp system. excellent. * vomit: because it looks sometimes pretty small when i walk through * plassy: ok * vomit: especially because i just get to the same places * blackfinix: but i think that is for a nother meeting * hendrik: I suggest that if the player has given a cat to the kennel, he would not be able to adopt a second one. * erdnuggel: I like the idea to save a pet in the own house.. * vomit: and i saw a handdrawn map at the wiki * blackfinix: only one pet per person? that seems reasonable * pepsz: me too =) * erdnuggel: maybe it is possible to save it in the vault? if someone haves no own house? * humana: yes erdnuggel * humana: that's a good idea! * superkym: the vault is destroyed when you leave * hendrik: eeeak, how can you be so cruel to put a pet into a windowless room. * superkym: it's just created while you are there * erdnuggel: hmm * superkym: i think better to have soemone taking care of it (an npc) * erdnuggel: yes, sounds good too * hendrik: I think the wildlife place is a good idea for the kennel. * vomit: maybe you can put your pet into the chest * humana: yes that's cool kym * superkym: vomit that's very cruel! * blackfinix: would making things like the vault or the kennel persitant between server restarts require a lot of work? on the DB code? * humana: I think Katinka is friendly enough to save them * pepsz: is posible when you put one iten on valt fo destroid it these iten can teleport for public cheest? * vomit: i got this idea from WoW * vomit: xD * superkym: blackfinix that's not the aim of the vault * storrymanmen: hi * Mayor Sakhs: Welcome citizen! Do you need help? * tigertoes: if you find a cat and give to sanctuary, and then want a cat of your own later, why couldnt you buy one * hendrik: blackfinix, the vault, yes. The kennel, no. * pepsz: becouse you no need this iten more the new players can use * Mayor Sakhs: Have a good day and enjoy your stay! * hendrik: tigertoes, if you give it to the sancturary for them to care about your pet, you can just get it back. This is different form giving it away without wanting it back. * superkym: tigertoes if you give to the sanctuary that's forever, so yes you could get another. if you gave temporailiy to kennels i don't think you shoudl get another * tigertoes: ok, i see, was thinking you meant differently * vomit: why do i never see chars with both, dragon and cat? * porl: ??? * superkym: sanctuary could = when you give permanently an abandoned pet you found or one you dont' want. kennel = temporary * blackfinix: kym thats sounds right * tigertoes: yes * porl: can i join the party? * superkym: vomit, the pet seller would tell you why that's not ok * porl: what happened? * vomit: okay * superkym: porl we're discussing what small improvements can be made in the game * superkym: we talked about making a variety of pet which can improve with time * superkym: and now about kennels * blackfinix: what about animals with special abilities? pack animals with extra slots for itemss. or mounted animals for faster travel? * superkym: and we talked about /ignore working for public chat * blackfinix: or animals for fighting (especially) * superkym: blackfinix players run the fastest that anything can run, in this world ~~== Other ==~~ * sentinel: missing npc to selling armors == Size of bag == * The bag is always too small. * vomit: i think the bag, wich you take with you, should be a little bigger * It may be a good idea to let players earn the right to get more storage, like the keyring. * vomit: i allways have problems, because my bag is full * ~~superkym:~~There ~~vomit,~~is ~~that~~some iswork ~~something~~in ~~being worked~~progress on ~~:) not bigger bag - but~~ boxes and backpacks and so on * miasma: whoo sounds good, kym :D * blackfinix: yes a backpack of holding. like nethack :) * plassy: yes the bag is too small * superkym: that is quite complicated * superkym: backpacks and boxes and containers are all very much being worked on. the keyring would then also work like this == ~~Mute~~Poison == * Poisoning creatures are disliked by some players * hendrik: I want /mute to be remembered accross restarts. ** well, that is the idea behind them * superkym: yes and the command could be more user friendly ** fit well into the world * vomit: that's great superkym * There should be poison arrows and weapons * superkym: i think it should just be /mute ** currently only players can be poisoned, needs some moving of code blocks * superkym: not /sound mute on and /sound mute off ** those weapons should be created by the adventurers by applying poison to them ({{tracker\|1591445}}) * there should be special antidotes for stronger poison == Stackable item handling == ~~== Summon Scrolls ==~~ * ctrl+drag does not work if you take the item from a chest * shinigami: could the summon scrolls can become more power if u use much of them ? * there should be the reverse of /drop 2 items to take 2 items from the chest * superkym: shinigami - would that be abused? * even better a menu for that which pops up on ctrl drag * blackfinix: it could be. but we could put limits on it * superkym: someone could summon a very big creature right outside semos then :o * blackfinix: i havent used a summon scroll in forever * hendrik: shinigami, that was the origional plan. But we had scaling issues with the old RP. * miasma: what's about summoning creatures who are on these maps? not the big ones but i think if there's a map where are just rats then you can just summon rats there * superkym: miasma, that is interesting * superkym: but then what is the advantage? * kiheru: if we make the protection more fine grained, the low protection areas could allow stronger monsters to be summoned * blackfinix: or only summon creatures natural to that screen == ~~Background~~Quest ~~Music~~Contribution == * storyteller: but what if there is for example music added some time? Then you need "/sound mute on" and "/music mute on" * humana: hey... I want more sound in this game, maybe music!... I thought about a new house... for example a jazz house... there are some musicians (is that the right word) which are playing music... you can do there for example a new quest too ... how do you think about this? * humana: maybe first just one place for music ... it's difficult to write songs for all places in stendhal... * vomit: humana u can compose music for the game and sent it to the developers * hendrik: And too many other things to work on. * vomit: there's a text in the wiki about this * humana: what kind of music? * plassy: you have to get the music from anywhere... * humana: I can do maybe something with cheatdomi * vomit: chilling tunes * humana: I like it if there is a jazz house! * storyteller: humana, I already produced a four music tracks for Stendhal :) * vomit: maybe ambient * vomit: or classic with a touch of medieval tunes * humana: it's difficult to write something for all places vomit * humana: you want for dungeons for example other music * humana: storyteller? where can I hear this music? * vomit: i allways think about the soundtrack of "elder scrolls" * storyteller: it is added to the patches tracker * hendrik: Please keep in mind that this is a free game. Which means that any music needs to be free and "with source". So an mp3 is not good. * yoriy: its me who want it, osl * storyteller: it´s something for ambiet/atmosphere * miasma: we could take midi-files. * superkym: storyteller's music is really good. but adding to the game it is another thing * vomit: in the wiki stood something about ogg * storyteller: I produced it myself * pepsz: i thnk when you ignore somebody you can write the motive for example /ignore pepzs (motive) * porl: it will suck whan im 597 * vomit: would flac do it either? * humana: okay teller I will hear it * blackfinix: hmm ambient music is not hard to compose :) .... or even automated music ... * humana: kymi? what do you mean? * superkym: pepsz, you can write this already * porl: hi * love_puppet: you have a vary long time befor u get that far * vomit: i have one ambienttrack * love_puppet: like long * vomit: but it's in mp3 * plassy: maybe we can find some music at jamendo.com... ist creative common * miasma: midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home * humana: I like some music for your heart * humana: like blues and jazz * blackfinix: convert it to ogg * pepsz: wow i dont know these =S * superkym: pepsz please type /help and you will see what to do to add the reason. and when you type /ignore alone, you see who you have ignored and for what reason * blackfinix: ogg is open source * porl: please * porl: make no max lvl * storyteller: no, I think we should not take music from anywhere... * vomit: would flac do it, too? * blackfinix: yes flac is open source * humana: storryteller what do you mean? * porl: if someone wants muc«sic, get itunes, and hear it! * plassy: what do you mean with anywhere? * kiheru: with flac we would get rather large download sizes * miasma: i'm for midi-files. * storyteller: well, to take it from any other source... Because of the copyright etc * plassy: its a game * vomit: flac would just be the source * humana: porl there are guys who want music and guys which say it is not important * porl: get itunes * superkym: i'm pretty sure the wiki says what specifications we have, doesn't it say oggs? * porl: im hearing music right now * humana: yes and a game has a background music * humana: you can mute the music * vomit: you could downsample it then for your own desired size * pepsz: more for example the people how you ignore can see why you ignore hem when try speak with you * porl: no max lvl * Oslsachem: music usually adds atmosphere to the game but not gameplay * blackfinix: a midi composition would work miasma. but im not sure if he game can handle them * humana: so I don't know now... what do you think about a Blues or Jazz house? * plassy: midi and linux istnt a good idea * humana: midi... * blackfinix: if it was midi it would definitely have a retro sound to the game :) * yoriy: what about next ideas * Oslsachem: porl, the problem of levelling undefinedly is that if creature don't level together with you, you end up without challenges. * vomit: i think it should be ogg * sentinel: 7who * storyteller: do you think about 8-bit music? * matheus: open * Oslsachem: undefinitely * blackfinix: yes ogg is best bet * storyteller: retro style? ;) * vomit: and there should be a soundtrack file, which you are able to download extra * kezman: hi all * plassy: full ack to ogg * miasma: i think a retro touch like lufia or secret of mana or sth. is not bad for a game like these * blackfinix: vomit yes ... like the sound files now * storyteller: thats right miasma * vomit: yes * blackfinix: yes * superkym: adding music woudl still be rather a major change * vomit: but midis are tooooo oldschool * sentinel: missing a shop for armors * blackfinix: ok we can put that off for now, or create a ccommittee to look into it * humana: who wrote music for stendhal already? * superkym: it's not a minor thing which we can just make happen, it's a major thing needed, as far as i remember * vomit: atmospheric sounds in ogg would be better * miasma: but not your ambient music, vomit. i think ulthar isn't a good choice. in dreamscape maybe ;) * Oslsachem: music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value. * plassy: whats the problem with music... there is support for sounfd in java... or im wrong? * [[Stendhal Quest Contribution]] explains how a quest is created. Starting with a very first rough idea and ending with an implemented and well tested quest that is fun to play. * samson: I don't care about music / sounds as long as I can switch them off * There are already some ideas at [[Stendhal Quest Ideas]] in various states of completion. * blackfinix: yes samson. * It is a good idea to join [http://stendhal.game-host.org/?id=content/game/chat #arianne] and talk about your ideas, especially before you start to put lots of work into it. * plassy: so who did the original sound stuff? * Oslsachem: there's the question wether music should be played individually for each player or wether it should be associated with the zone... * hendrik: There should be different music for cities, forrest, dungeons. * hendrik: So it would be zone depended. * plassy: music have to add atmosphere * superkym: yes and storyteller's music are great examples of this * hendrik: We already have some wind like sounds in 0_semos_village_w, but that is very basic. * storyteller: Thanks very much :) * superkym: some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow * superkym: some are dark and scary like for a dungeon * Oslsachem: but that means that when a player enters a zone the music is not played from the beginning * superkym: also he made them fairly small file which is important as we don't want to force large downloads, and they loop, too. * yoriy: if music stay zone dependent it must not be monotonic , so probably there must be 2-3 misic themes for each zones * blackfinix: osl that wouuld be ok though? * hendrik: There is this problem: * storyteller: hmm... * hendrik: Player One enters the zone. * hendrik: The music starts. * hendrik: 30 second later player Two enters the zone. * blackfinix: oh i see ... yes * storyteller: Then the music has to be played for every single player * hendrik: Will he hear the music from the start? Or will it start with 30 seconds into the track? * tigertoes: if it is a loop, wouldnt that mean it doesnt matter? * vomit: the music should play for each player * tigertoes: same concept for when you have music on telephone and they put you on hold * storyteller: yes, tigertoes... for loops it doesnt matter * love_puppet: or mabey the player 2 picks up 30s in to the track * vomit: that should be controled locally by the client * plassy: the music should fade in... ther is no need to hear it from the start * hendrik: Always starting at the beginning of the file is a lot easier to code. * plassy: except if special events arise * yoriy: id like to have music in client * yoriy: instead server * plassy: hendrik: i dont see the problem... dosn't java handle this? * plassy: isn't there any library? * superkym: why is it a problem if the music starts from the beginning as you enter, for each player? i think that is ok * jesco: yes it is * hendrik: okay, that makes things easier. * kiheru: java does not handle everything. there's still a lot about the behaviour to code * blackfinix: wouldn't all this music be very resource hungry? * humana: kymi? what is if you play with 2 accounts? * humana: you have to mute one? * Oslsachem: there's an unofficial rule that states that all the players should see the same things in the game though I don't know if music is really a part of the world or just the game interface because there isn't actually a musician playing it... * humana: otherwise maybe it sounds really * humana: strange * hendrik: It may be a good idea to only play the music if the client is the active window. * kiheru: you'd mute the music of one, unless you want a cacophony * superkym: well they may not even be in the same zone humana... yes i guess you would choose to mute one * superkym: or hendrik's idea * blackfinix: but that would be the players problem if he/she choses to play more than one char * humana: yes * superkym: blackfinix the music itself would be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are * blackfinix: ok i see * superkym: so it does not need to be sent over the network from the server. just the instruction to start playing, stop playing * kiheru: as a separate packege, I'd prefer * blackfinix: ok * storyteller: yes, kym, that would be best * tigertoes: i agree to the separate package... if someone wants music, they can download it separately * superkym: or a FULL client and a clien twithout sounds * Oslsachem: for all the players to listen to the music synchronously, it should be streamed from the server and not stored in the client I guess... * superkym: like we already have * plassy: no... no stream * superkym: Oslsachem i'm really not sure that's necessary * kiheru: no reason to stream. waste of bandwidht * hendrik: kiheru, i suggest these steps: 1. Make mute persitent, 2. include the sound files in stendhal-0..., 3. include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0... * blackfinix: streaming would really eat the bandwidth * storyteller: yes, that´s true * miasma: jep. * kiheru: just have a "atmosphere" property for the zones that's send to the client * superkym: if you really wanted to make it start at the correct place you'd send what moment in teh tarck to start from * superkym: but not stream * superkym: * track * plassy: yes * storyteller: yes * hendrik: does someone volunteer? * blackfinix: ok * superkym: btw osl you're outside my window. can you come to the table? * hendrik: I will fix the /mute thingy. * taron: Ronaldo!!! * superkym: thanks, hendrik * storyteller: volunteer for what? ;) * humana: oslachem? * blackfinix: to lead the music commitee? * hendrik: for creating music files, for writing to code to use them. * kiheru: cI donburied under all my tasks already :-( * storyteller: I´ll produce the music :) * miasma: what about the animal masks in ados? why do they just stay 2 hours? i think the time should be altered for 2 days too * humana: good job tigger * tigertoes: :) * hendrik: I think it may be a good idea to just start with two small midi files for testing, not putting to much time into it until the code works. * Maria: humana, if you want my attention, just say hi. * hendrik: if "midi" is the way to go. * plassy: maybi i can help with the music programming * storyteller: okay, btw converting to ogg isn´t a problem ;) * superkym: plassy, that would be good * miasma: i could try to make midi-files. thanks to guitar pro :D * hendrik: plassy, cool. * storyteller: ^^ * plassy: i only have to look a bit in the java docs * hendrik: miasma, thank you. * tigertoes: i dont think you can get the range in midi files as you can in ogg * kiheru: the code is the critical part for now, so help for that is very welcome :-) * storyteller: Okay, Miasma and I do the music :) * hendrik: plassy, it may be a good idea to join arianne on irc. Pleae ask there if you have any questions or need some points around the Stendhal source code. * Oslsachem: you could play with the music tempo, increasing it when a player has low health * storyteller: good idea * humana: so if you want some music for some maps... Iam here, I have guitar pro .. and domi have a better programm * miasma: like the time-out music in super mario, oslsachem? ;) * kiheru: maybe eventually osl. first we need something that works * humana: good Idea oslachem * storyteller: yes, miasma :D * Oslsachem: I guess so, miasma :) * storyteller: that would be great ^^ == ~~Poisonous~~Quest ~~Weappons~~Log == * We want a quest log that records the progress of quests ({{tracker\|1716575}}). * shinigami: could u create poision weapons? * blackfinix: shinigami cool idea * yoriy: we can but for example i dont like this * superkym: shinigami, that's rather an old feature request :) poison arrows too :) * vomit: i even dislike poisoned creatures * hendrik: I like them. * superkym: i like poisonous creatures, i think it's very interesting * erdnuggel: I like them too :) * blackfinix: i like them too. except they are not really a threat after a certain level * superkym: to have different styles of fighting and different things can happen * love_puppet: :D then creatures will hate you then with a posion weapon * vomit: isn't it already possible to poison creatures with a codeline? * blackfinix: there should be a graded use or special antidotes for stronger poison from creatures * vomit: i think i read about this once * superkym: i'm not familiar with that vomit. as far as i knew currently only players can be poisoned. but that' snot to say it wouldnt' be possible to code it * kiheru: I I think poison handling is done in Player atm. so it needs some work before it works for any creature * For example something like this: Helping Tad ~~== Taking some stackable items from chest ==~~ * yoriy: id like to have a feature to take only one stackable object from chest if there is several * superkym: a bit like the ctrl-drag yoriy? * superkym: but to work for chest as well as bag? * yoriy: better menu punkt * blackfinix: yes like the reverse of /drop 2 items * yoriy: right * kiheru: at least the ctrl drag should work there too * kiheru: it's confusing that it does not * superkym: i think that's a bug, really * superkym: you expect it to work * superkym: would you make a bug report please yoriy? * yoriy: i will try ctrl-drag first * yoriy: but i liketo see it in menu anyway * humana: all right yoriy? * tigertoes: i just tried the ctrl move from chest and it doesnt work * superkym: yes tigertoes that's why i asked to make a bug report * tigertoes: was just saying cause yoriy wanted to try it before he did bug rpt ~~== Quest Log ==~~ Helping Tad * I have met Tad in Semos Townhall He asked me to buy a flask from Margaret in Semos Tavern. I got a flask and will bring it to Tad soon. Tad asked me to take the flask to ~~ilisa~~Ilisa at Semos Temple. Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove. Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove. Ilisa created a powerful potion to help Tad. She asked me to tell him that it is ready. ** Tad thanked me. * hendrik: There is a feature in development that should list the quests and there progress. * hendrik: It partly works already, You can try it out by typing this: /listquests IntroducePlayers * hendrik: I guess we want a dialog window for that in the long run. * hendrik: So it needs works at two ends: * hendrik: The dialog window. And we need the texts that should be displayed. * hendrik: The second part is something that everyone that knew the quests can help with. Even without knowing anything about coding computer programs. * blackfinix: a short description of each quest? i could go through them and do that * hendrik: Yes, it is a bit of work. But you don't have to do all quest, just a couple of quests, And I really think that is a cool feature. * humana: I can help you blackfinix! * blackfinix: ok * superkym: not so much each quest but each possibel stage * blackfinix: oh i understand * superkym: some quests are already done * blackfinix: if i can see them i could follow the style * superkym: but we can provide a list of what needs doing, probably * superkym: right * blackfinix: ok * humana: blackfinix? * hendrik: It should be like a log showing the progress. * blackfinix: ok timur :) * humana: okay:) * superkym: the wiki page about quests would also advise on this, since it says what each stage is, for each quest * humana: we can speak later about it in more detail * blackfinix: ok timur * blackfinix: ok kym * superkym: so that should be converted so it reads like a log * humana: okay kymi.. * yoriy: looks like game walkthrough * humana: so I have another thing * superkym: but what about the gui? * yoriy: what with that, kym? * storyteller: Well, there should be different screen sizes in my opinion... * superkym: the window should sit outside the game screen like the minimap, and buddies, or float over it? should it always be there? and can anyone volunteers? * superkym: storyteller i mean the gui for the quest infrmation * storyteller: okay * yoriy: maybe it can be maked in book form? * hendrik: Please have a look at http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml (click "download" and save the file to disk). * blackfinix: brb * hendrik: There is a list of quests already described. * erdnuggel: or to show it with an kommand like "/myquests" * humana: okay hendrik * hendrik: Don't worry about the confusing <..: stuff, just the raw texts are file, too. * humana: okay :) ~~* hendrik: are fine~~ humana: yes * superkym: there is a fill in the blank type template too ~~== City Welcome Messages ==~~ * This feature is in development and already works partly: /listquests IntroducePlayers * humana: if you are your first time in a new city like FADO City... I like it if there is a welcome shield!!!... and it say like the guide... WELCOME IN FADO * Starting with 0.80 /listquests without parameter will give you a list of all quests known to you * humana: how do you think about the welcome shields??? * Warning: On 0.79 /listquests without parameters might create such a long reply that the client crashes * hendrik: humana, do you mean signs? * hendrik: "Verkehrsschilder?" * humana: yes * humana: sorry :) * erdnuggel: I think he means a welcom-sign ;o) * humana: yes * humana: yes * erdnuggel: * welcome * humana: thank you erdnuggel :) * hendrik: I like that idea. * erdnuggel: np * erdnuggel: yes, sounds good * humana: so you know this first guide? * superkym: a clickable sign to read? or a text that appears like when you enter some dungeons? * humana: if you create a new account * humana: the pink text * humana: like this * tigertoes: i like the text that appears... a zone thing * humana: understand me? :D * hendrik: yes ~~== Fighting Rules ==~~ * There should be a dialogue window in the long run * xkimetx: the monsters low lvl not atk u ** One part showing the list of known quests * xkimetx: if u are best lvl ** The other part shows the log for the selected one * xkimetx: why if bear atk me ** Window should be outside the world not like the bag, but like the minimap or the help window * xkimetx: he hit me * The log itself is something that everyone that knew the quests can help with. Even without knowing anything about coding computer programs. * blackfinix: ok ** blackfinix and humana volunteered to write some of the required texts. More volunteers are very welcomed. * humana: wb blackfinix ** The [[StendhalQuest\|wiki page about quests]] may help because it often advises on the different states of the quests * kiheru: the bear did not know you're strong ** The work that has already been done can be seen at [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml?view=markup quests.xml] (right click on this link to [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml download]) * tigertoes: foolish bear ;) * superkym: he just thought you are food * samson: .. and the bear was hungry :-) * erdnuggel: hehe * blackfinix: stupid bear XD * xkimetx: but rat?? * superkym: rat are more stupid that bear * kiheru: rats, otoh, are well aware they're small * superkym: all the see is your toes * xkimetx: lol * xkimetx: xD * superkym: and it smells of cheese * yoriy: rat is extremely hungry, all of them * storyteller: ^^ * tigertoes: oh no... smelly feet == City Welcome Messages == * there could be a welcome message when you reach a city for the first time: Welcome in Fado ~~== Performance Problems ==~~ * perhaps this could appear when you reach other areas for the first time * those text boxed may guide you * or there may be a in world sign near the city entrance which points to the important locations == Training == * plassy: err.. one thing... i recently observed something... it seams the client has an performance proplem. am i right? * We still need to teach that it's now not necessary to train, with the new RP - that gaining xp improves your abilities faster * superkym: plassy, even in 0.79? * Training is still allowed, and it has its advantages, but it's risky * hendrik: plassy we fixed one in the last release. * Ideas were suggested to make training 'easier' like: * plassy: iyes :* a training dagger which does a limited damage of 1 point per hit no matter the player's level and which gets used up when the player gets 1 point in both attack and defense experience. And the price is proportional to the player' level * plassy: i played a bit with a local server and it lagged :* weapons with rate less than 1 (it was explained that rate 1 means one hit per 1 turn, so it's not possible to go faster - it was claimed that in some other servers this is possible) * superkym: java server and java client running together would be quite resource hungry * It would be good if there was a way to train by being active in game. The old camping system of gaining level by not playing but just being logged in is not good. * yoriy: i have some problems with Mandriva OS. My CPU was overheat, but i removed it and still have some troubles :* if you train you have to answer question of a quiz (jokey suggestion) * plassy: wait.. i havent tested the 0.97 release :* after a certain number of hits you have to reselect to attack your partner so it is less 'hands off' * superkym: but, i don't know how good your machine is plassy * Some players train to be able to cope better alone, e.g. in deathmatch * miasma: ah is there a "minimum system requirements"-site in the stendhal-wiki? * plassy: i have a quad-core intel 4gb ram * plassy: lol * blackfinix: my machine runs at 1GHZ and 256 ram. no problem in linux or windows * superkym: perhaps you could try the 0.79 client * plassy: i will * miasma: that would be helpful i think if you can read on the wiki what''s the requirements * miasma: * system requirements * storyteller: yes, miasma * superkym: Ok miasma, like which java version you need, and something about memory? we'd need to come up with what to put there though * blackfinix: I put something on the wiki about java versions, but i think it disappeared * miasma: yeah the java version and memory blah... that'S what i mean kym :D * superkym: blackfinix - disappeared? if you log back in with your user, and look for your contrbutions, you could find it again * blackfinix: ok i will * plassy: the lagging occurs only if many fighting is done * plassy: i will try the three clients * hendrik: On some systems, the client gets a lot faster when starting it with java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true -jar stendhal-0.79.jar * blackfinix: on linux run it su with "nice -n 19" helps * hendrik: eeeeak. * superkym: and i use -Xmx200m to raise the limit * kiheru: nicing should not be necessary * blackfinix: i have an ancient machine :) * plassy: i'm jusing openjdk if that matters * tigertoes: that will be great test then plassy == ~~Random~~Item availability == * It was requested that the very rare items like demon fire sword and soul dagger become less rare * The best items are rare because it makes the game interesting and balanced * xkimetx: and mithril armor?? * Mithril armor was enquired about - the quest is still in development * xkimetx: have in web site * Mithril blade was mentioned but it is only an idea now * xkimetx: but not there * It was suggested that new players should be able get some very good items with quests - again this would be unbalanced * xkimetx: why?? * Amulets were mentioned but without any suggestion of what purpose they would have * tigertoes: mithril armor quest is in development still, sorry kimet * xkimetx: hmmm * xkimetx: more monsters for drop great weapon * xkimetx: you all are working in trade system?? * superkym: xkimetx it's in development, a trade NPC * xkimetx: hmm * xkimetx: and treiners * xkimetx: 1 day * xkimetx: u pay for train * xkimetx: the hours * xkimetx: lvls 500 can not train * blackfinix: can we discuss pvp rules today? * hendrik: blackfinix is that related to code or social? * blackfinix: social * bluekiller: what is with balrog? * hendrik: Than that's something for a gm meeting. But we can talk about it at the end, I guess. * xkimetx: kym * xkimetx: new places * blackfinix: ok * xkimetx: in island * xkimetx: have one place * xkimetx: with u can not enter * xkimetx: u can create a new place there * xkimetx: but for lvl 400 + * xkimetx: for players lvl up * xkimetx: for go to there * xkimetx: for players play more * xkimetx: xD * yoriy: bad idea * xkimetx: why?? * yoriy: for lazy players only * xkimetx: and new creatures * blackfinix: i dont understand * yoriy: :-) * pepzs: i think can have new quests for example golden armor quest and chaos legs quest * xkimetx: hmmm * pepzs: for the low level can make * superkym: pepzs, mightn't that be a little unbalanced? * superkym: the idea is that the game is balanced and you get higher level armor when you have earned it. new quests to get items are fine, so long as they are balanced * hamunu: hey * hamunu: do we have apple juice in this game * xkimetx: the trainer scroll * storyteller: I am away now * xkimetx: for u not need players for train * xkimetx: why if u kill one player * bluekiller: pcmtf * xkimetx: u are marked with skull * blackfinix: thats the gamble with training xkimetx * xkimetx: or party system (/party (playe r) * blackfinix: it shouldn't be without risks * pepzs: yes more the players start with simple quest and simple armor xD * xkimetx: and if u kill * xkimetx: with party * kiheru: we have tried to make the game so that it's not necessary to train. you can, and it has its advantages, but it's risky * xkimetx: u are not be a pk * hendrik: In the past training was something that was neccessary to get strong. But after we rewored the fighting rules you can get strong without training quicker. * xkimetx: in this case * xkimetx: the skull system * pepzs: yes * humana: hmm I will train to do my deathmatch alone * xkimetx: not be if u kill only 1 players * humana: :) * xkimetx: but if u kill more of 1 * xkimetx: in 1 week * superkym: hamunu, no we don't have it here * humana: no apple juice? * humana: so I found some apple and I thought * pepzs: can retired the aura protection ans implant skull system * humana: maybe we can create apple juice for this gamve :) * superkym: humana it sounds like you already know there is some * Oslsachem: kezman suggests making a training dagger which does a limited damage of 1 point per hit no matter the player's level and which gets used up when the player gets 1 point in both attack and defense experience. And the price is proportional to the player' level * superkym: why else are you asking about it? maybe you saw the item on a test server or on the items page? it was an idea which was started and not finished * pepzs: 1kill red skull 3 kill black skull and when take black skull can sell or buy anything from npc for 2 weeks * superkym: have you a particular need for a new food/drink? we have so much * hamunu: ahh no kymi. * hamunu: iam fine with this food what here is.. * hendrik: I like the idea of having a way to use apples. * hamunu: hmm but maybe for another thing * superkym: did you see the thing in practise hendrik, which used them? * erdnuggel: maybe you can bake a apple-pie :D * hamunu: not for apple juice * blackfinix: throw them at annoying players?) * superkym: it was a food mill * tigertoes: i like apple pie better than apple juice * hamunu: maybe apple cake? * superkym: and you could make apple juice from apples using it * xkimetx: more fast the respawn???? * hamunu: apple pie :) * blackfinix: apple schnaapps? * xkimetx: of creatures * xkimetx: or increase the drop * hamunu: ahh that's a good idea * hamunu: it works a little bit like poison!! * hamunu: apple schnapps * hamunu: if you drink it * xkimetx: why demon fire sword 0.1% * superkym: it is already coded but i think the idea of an item processor is so useful that it is worth making it more general * hamunu: it's more difficult to walk * xkimetx: soul dagger impossible * xkimetx: chaos axe too * superkym: so that we can process other items too. and not hard code in that it only uses apples and only makes juice * kiheru: some items are rare on purpose * hamunu: xkimetx * hamunu: it isn't impossible! * yoriy: right, lets do probabilities for all items of 100% :-) * kiheru: still some players are lucky enough to find them * hendrik: Oslsachem, kezman, it would be cool if there was a way to train by being active in game. I think the old camping system of gaining level by not playing but just being logged in is not good. * hamunu: so I think kiheru have both weapons! * hamunu: there are more than 2 soul daggers * hamunu: I saw 3 players! * blackfinix: i agree hendrik * xkimetx: increase the def of mithril boots * kiheru: the mithril boots could indeed be better. now nobody uses them * hamunu: lol.. if you train you have to answer question of a quiz if you have under 5 points you die :P * blackfinix: i do, because they are pretty :) * hamunu: just kiddng :) * pepzs: implant one weapon make of mithril =D * hamunu: the boots of finix looks like my white converse chucks :D * blackfinix: yes a mithril blade * superkym: what kind of activity, hendrik? * xkimetx: kkk * xkimetx: no * xkimetx: sword of fury * blackfinix: yes hamunu:) * xkimetx: axe of fury * superkym: like you can only attack one player for 10 hits at a time * xkimetx: rod of fury * superkym: and then you stop the attack * xkimetx: xD * superkym: so you'd have to start it again? * tigertoes: the mithril blade is being considered for something down the road * superkym: something as simple as that? * blackfinix: ok tigger * hendrik: A couple of minutes ago, there was a short discussion about new quests. Should I explain how new quests are added, starting with a rough idea? * tigertoes: yes hendrik * xkimetx: amulets??? * xkimetx: have ring * xkimetx: cloak * blackfinix: is coding them difficult for beginners? * xkimetx: but not have amulet * xkimetx: xD * hamunu: amulet is cool! * kiheru: boxing ring where the opponents would get tired :-P (or knocked out) * pepzs: yes amulet * pepzs: xD * superkym: no blackfinix, hendrik is going to explain that now * blackfinix: ok ~~== Quest Contribution ==~~ * hendrik: A quest starts with a rough idea. * hendrik: Sometimes those ideas are very detailed, sometimes they are just one sentences. * pepzs: level request for make some quest * hendrik: Like There should be an dunken soilders who wants a beer. * pepzs: some players make mithril shield level 120 and can use only level 250 * xkimetx: yes * xkimetx: but this level for use is good * pepzs: is better implant one level for make the quests * hamunu: yes I like it if you can use it with level 250 * hamunu: there is more fun to level up! * hendrik: Those ideas should be discussed. Talk with other people about it. For example in #arianne. * hendrik: * What is the quest about? * How does it fit into the world? * Which NPCs should take part in the quest? * What should the reward be? * Can the quest be done only once or repeatedly? * Are new items or monsters required? * hendrik: Just some questions to help you focus on the important parts. * hendrik: Don't worry, you are not alone. * hamunu: ahh I think nobody answered my question... How do you think about a music house? * hendrik: At the end there should be short description for the quest: * hendrik: Title: Beer For Hayunn * hendrik: Participants: Hayunn Naratha (the veteran warrior in Semos Village), Margaret (Semos inn) * pepzs: hum * hendrik: Steps: * hendrik: 1. Hayunn asks you to buy a beer from Margaret. * hendrik: 2. Margaret sells you a beer. * pepzs: i think can have a level for enter where have entwife * hamunu: I does that on another server... * hendrik: 3. Hayunn sees your beer, asks for it and then thanks you. * hendrik: Reward: 50 XP, 20 gold coins, Karma: 10 * hendrik: Repetitions: None * hamunu: yes I think there is a page on arianne.sourceforge * pepzs: the players up very fast on it can become same gnome vilage * blackfinix: thanks hendrik * hendrik: There are already some ideas at http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Ideas in various states of completion. * hamunu: no this * hamunu: finix * hamunu: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalQuest * hamunu: oh :P * xkimetx: npcs for sale mega potions * hamunu: ahh kimet * hamunu: that's to easy * xkimetx: xD * vomit: i have to go * hamunu: I don't like it if it's to easy * vomit: cheers * hamunu: bye * hendrik: The next step is to write down the text the NPC should say. * blackfinix: bye vomit * hendrik: This can be part of the coding. But if someone like myself with limited knowledg of English codes the quest it is helpful to have those texts. * superkym: at would stage should the quest idea be presented to arianne for discussion and approval? * hendrik: If you want to read it up, you can have a look at http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Contribution * samson: I too don't like it if it's to easy .... so lets take the empty scrolls out of the game * superkym: should it be before lots of work is done working out the npcs texts? * plassy: hoi... I right now tested the "stendhal_test1.zip" file at my local server. its pretty much faster * blackfinix: ok hendrik * hendrik: superkym, i'd say, the earlier the better. * hendrik: The wiki page has a link to a tutorial for coding the quest. * hendrik: But you can help without knowing how to write computer programs. * xkimetx: kkkk * xkimetx: compro gato * blackfinix: I figured if I learned to code enough, at least for quests, i could focus on those * hendrik: For example, I know how to write the code for a quest. But I am spending very little time in game. So I am missing the knowledge about the world of Stendhal in order to create a consistent one. * kezman: :D * xkimetx: where are bluelads??? * hendrik: blackfinix, http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Coding explains the coding of quest. It is not completed, yet. I am working on the tutorial. * blackfinix: ok I am reading it now :) * hendrik: if anyone wants to help with a new quest, but http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Ideas lists a few quests that may need further discussion and the texts the npcs should say. == Client Performance == * There had some performance problems in the drawing code of the client in the past which we think we fixed in 0.79 * plassy: who posted the three stendhal versions? what is the difference? * If anyone still has problems like the chat bar not reacting to newly typed letters quickly enough, please contact /support and try to include information about your operating system and java version. * hendrik: Those 3 test version are different in the way the drawing is synchronzied with the gui. * We have three clients for you to test if you are still suffering client side lag. They use different ways to synchronize the drawing with the reset of the game. * plassy: the first one works perfectly * On some systems, the client gets a lot faster when starting it with java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true -jar stendhal-0.79.jar * plassy: i tested it with nearly 100 orcs on the srceen * Adding -Xmx200m may help, too. * hendrik: plassy, can you test the 2nd one too? * superkym: there certainly does become a client performance issue when you have a lot of entities * plassy: the normal version hungs up imidiatly * plassy: i will test the second on, sure... * plassy: so... i tried the 0.79 release from the website and it laggs too == Random == * there have been suggestions for a place for level 400 players ~~== Regions ==~~ * it was suggested to only mark player killers if they kill multiple players * training (camping), however, should not be without risk * hendrik: There is something else related to zone and quests. * create apple juice out of apples with the help of a food mill * hendrik: I think it would be cool if we had a wiki page for each "region". Which says something about the history, what the region is about. * being able to throw apples at annoying players * superkym: Those ideas would still beed to be discussed a bit in #arianne i think. Some have been there for some time. * apple schnapps, perhaps acting like poison to make it more difficult to walk when drunk * hendrik: For example Ados is a port-city. * it was suggested that mithril boots may have to low def * hendrik: It suffers from not having enough food. * yoriy: hendrik, i guess Zynn Ivuhos have explanations for that wiki pages... :-) * hendrik: It would be cool to have this information, which you can learn by talking to NPCs and solving quests, at one central place. * Oslsachem: yes, the game needs more background story * miasma: i could write a bit story but just in german * superkym: There is some of that information here: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalAtlas#Places * superkym: did you mean you would like that put into a wiki page for each place? * Oslsachem: which can serve as a starting point for developing quests related with the plot * hendrik: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalAtlas#Places is a good starting point. But it needs quite a big of work. Perhaps even one article per city? * superkym: there was a bit of an example started for semos village http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Semos_Village * superkym: but like the manual that page has an external image which needs to be uploaded to the wiki. and of course it needs more work * hendrik: For me it is difficult to add new NPCs or quests because I know too little about the history. I may easily add some inconsistancies. * hendrik: Yeah, that page is cool. * hendrik: We don't need something like that for every zone. But it would be really cool to have something like that for every region. * plassy: the second version works great, too. * hendrik: By region I mean a group of zones that are related. For example Ados City spans multiple zones. * blackfinix: yes * superkym: Why not the major regions as in that atlas link * blackfinix: it shouldn't be too dificult * plassy: maybe the problem is my client? i have a 0.77 client that is updated to 0.79 * hendrik: It is almost impossible for me, because I know too little about the world (I know staff about client-server communication, database access, finate state machines, ...) but thats not helpful here. * superkym: plassy you could therefore try getting the 0.79 as a clean download and report back? * hendrik: But those who actually play Stendhal can write it easily. * storyteller: back again * blackfinix: I probably could do it * plassy: sure * blackfinix: Im looking at the one for semos now * superkym: the great thing about the wiki is that it is something anyone can edit, and history is always kept, so you don't need to feel afraid of it * hendrik: Any volunteers? * blackfinix: I'll do it if no one else wants to * hendrik: The one about Semos Village is very outdated. It was written at time before Hayunn was moved there. * yoriy: i can i think - i playing often enough * superkym: what should the page titles be * blackfinix: ok yoriy * superkym: Semos ? * hendrik: Cool. It is a lot of work, but every bit helps. And I guess it is good if multiple people contribute and share the workload. * tigertoes: it is something many people can do... just keep in mind that multiple people might be updating at same time * superkym: or Stendhal:Semos ? * hendrik: without prefix. * superkym: ok, just Semos , Ados etc then * hendrik: yes. * tigertoes: so dont open file to edit, let it sit for long time before committing * blackfinix: And semos dungeons would be just one? * superkym: and images can be uploaded to the wiki linke the small image of one zone which you can see roughly where to get from that semos village example, or you can cut out a bigger image from the atlan of you want a bigger area * superkym: I think I would suggest that the Semos area page has details of the city, the village, the dungeons and maybe the plains around it * superkym: what do you think hendrik? * kezman: upload and download? also? * hendrik: superkym, yes. * kezman: :D * hendrik: Perhaps we can even add the concept of "regions" to the world in the future. * Oslsachem: hendrik what would be the concept of regions? * blackfinix: i wish i had an apple now ;) * hendrik: Oslsachem, 0_semos_village_w, 0_semos_city, 0_semos_plains_n are all part of "Semos Area". * superkym: so are -1_semos_dungeons * hendrik: they have one common theme. * yoriy: as well as int_semos_bank int_semos_townhall... * hendrik: Semos is a rural area. * hendrik: for low level players. * Oslsachem: so, how would that be reflected in game in the future? * hendrik: The first step would be to add it below the zone name. * superkym: it already is reflected in game with the naming conventions, at least * hendrik: and it may be a good idea to have one topic in each area. * hendrik: Like Semos is a rural town. Nalwor Forest (which includes the city) is the elfish area. * hendrik: Orril is the spuky castle area. * hendrik: and so on. * blackfinix: yes * porl: when can we do a raid? * hendrik: Perhaps we can even group them losely by player level. * superkym: porl, this meeting is about contributions to the game and the topic we are currently on is how people can help with the wiki * hendrik: so as a low level player you are best in Semos Area. * superkym: hendrik, isn't what you said all already true? * plassy: it starts to lagg when i begin to attak. if i don't attak it wont slow down * hendrik: if you get stronger, you move on to xxxx. And then to yyyy. * blackfinix: hendrik you mean like green, yellow, red for danger levels? (or 1,2,3) * hendrik: This is no strict rule. Just a rule of thumb. * superkym: as a rule we stick to keeping the semos areas safer, not putting crazy creatures there, nalwor is indeed the elvish area, and so on * hendrik: blackfinix that is a good idea, too. * superkym: i'm not sure what you're suggesting should be different * hendrik: superkym, We know that. But new players don't. * superkym: and we already have the idea that the further you go from semos city the less safe it is * hendrik: Currently the main way to identify your position in the world is the zone name. * hendrik: something like int_semos_townhall, 0_semos_village_w. * hendrik: those names are there for technical reasons. * hendrik: I guess we still need them. But I would like to have some in-game names. Not on a per zone basis. * yoriy: we can probably have aliases for zones * hendrik: yoriy, I am suggesting that we identify regions. For in game reasons. * plassy: yes this "technical" names should not be visible to the players * hendrik: zone are something that is there for technical reasons. * hendrik: a "region" is usally something that spawns multiple zones. * hendrik: for example: Ados citiy is so huge that it has multiple zones. * yoriy: what if show to player something like "You are inside Semos city bank" * hendrik: But from a players point of view that is Ados city. * hendrik: We probably should use the current zone names as subtitle. * Oslsachem: the fact is that zones are artificial divisions due to underlying technical requirements and not natural frontiers... :) * hendrik: speaking of sub titles, would it be possible to display some transparent text on region changes? * hendrik: That is similar to the "welcome sign" idea from earlier. * plassy: it where nice if you cold locate someone. like having a map and giving the coordinates to it * superkym: hendrik, transparent text? * Oslsachem: it would be perhaps more useful to have a compass to get there... * plassy: and then it shows the position of the coordinates on the map * superkym: there are two types os area messages at the moment: zone entry messages which you only get the very first time you ever enter that zone * hendrik: we currently don't have a map in game because it uses to much memory to display it. * hendrik: But we may be able to create multiple maps. One per region. * superkym: and messaging areas which can be sub-area-s of a whole zone, where you get a message when you enter an area, every time * hendrik: Those would be a lot smaller. * superkym: but what did you mean by transparent text? * plassy: it dont have to be detailed! just a little picture * porl: there should be a minimap wich we could open up, put a target where we want to go, and it would show the directions (like a gps) * superkym: you mean like the map of ados city? * Oslsachem: and because there aren't universal coordinates but patch based coordinates, I think... :/ * superkym: that julius gives out? * hendrik: superkym, i am thinking of a mixture of those. A message you get every time when you go from say Orril to Nalwor. * superkym: oslsachem, there are universal coordinates * hendrik: But without the white background so that it is not annoying. * superkym: i dont 'think that would be very visible hendrik * superkym: but the messaging area text, the one you get every time, is less annoying because it doesn't pop up * hendrik: Oslsachem, we do have a global coordinate system for all maps, except those starting with "int_". * superkym: you only see it in the chat log like the /me action * superkym shows, like this * hendrik: superkym, oh, that is good, yes. * superkym: hendrik i can show you such an area later if you like * hendrik: yes, please. ~~== Multi layered Atlas image ==~~ * hendrik: Does someone know how to work with multi layer images? * hendrik: I am asking because of the Atlas. * plassy: what do you mean? * tigertoes: it was closed * hendrik: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=StendhalAtlas * tigertoes: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1815905&group_id=1111&atid=101111 * plassy: multilayer... like photoshop? * superkym: or GIMP, which is free and open source * hendrik: We can easily generate the world map because there is a script for that. * hendrik: But all the yellow information like the dungeon pointers are lost. * plassy: this image formats are not for games * superkym: yes plassy, but hendrik is talking about the wiki now * hendrik: So it would be very cool if those circles could be saved in a way which makes it possible to apply them to the new map image. * kezvacters: i think JPG is better * superkym: if the map layer could be saved as one layer with the yellow circles only on another layer * superkym: then the map ayer can be replaced each time it is updated * superkym: but the yellow circles layer is not lost * hendrik: On the wiki page there is a link called: "100% scale map with dungeon entrances: [here] (a little outdated) " * superkym: and then it can be exported to png for display on the wiki * plassy: what's with 2 png with transparency? * hendrik: plassy, sounds like a good idea. But how do you know where to draw the circles? * tigertoes: so, hendrik, you wish a multi layerd png of all the levels ingame? * hendrik: tigertoes, no. * tigertoes: ok * hendrik: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/421/worlddungeonsdy8.png * yoriy: maybe even animated images which will shows first layer then second and vice versa * superkym: tigertoes i explained what i think hendrik meant * hendrik: There are yellow circles. * tigertoes: sorry, was looking at bugs * hendrik: The problem is this: The map is version 0.62 (or so). * superkym: one layer for the map image which changes, one layer for the yellow circles alone * porl: did anyone ever play grand theft auto?? in gta you can open a map, and put a target on it, then you just follow the target and get to the place, we could do that here * hendrik: so if there was a way to apply the yellow circles to a new version of the map without starting from scratch that would save a lot of work. * superkym: porl you can already do that on the minimap * plassy: but you know the positions of the areas you want to mark, or not? * porl: what minimap * tigertoes: ok, i can do that kym * superkym: the small red map of the zone * miasma: where's the fun, porl? i think its more cool if you have a journey where you must search the target * hendrik: tigertoes, thank you. * porl: yea, but in gta u can put it in any zone * tigertoes: yep * superkym: can you use gimp please rather than a photoshop format * porl: you can put in from here to nalwor for example * superkym: and upload the xcf as a media file to the wiki so that anyone can update it later too, since the idea is something that is easier to maintain * hendrik: porl there are scrolls for that. * hendrik: xcf? * plassy: gimp * superkym: xcf is the gimp multilayer format * superkym: that is what you wanted isn't it hendrik? * hendrik: oh, good. * plassy: can anyone explain the circle problem to me again... i dont get it sorry? * superkym: ok * hendrik: yes. * porl: but marked scrolls cost 2000!! * superkym: nalwor scrolls cost 400 * hendrik: prol there are city scrolls. * porl: fine * hendrik: plassy, please have a look at http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/421/worlddungeonsdy8.png * plassy: yes * hendrik: We can easily generate the plain map. * plassy: ok * hendrik: But then there are no yellow circles anymore. * plassy: and? * hendrik: So the idea is to apply the yellow circles to the new plain map file. * plassy: yes * hendrik: currently this is done by someone spending two hours or so drawing them again. * plassy: lol * superkym: which is why it hasn't been done since 0.62 :P * hendrik: but we are lazy. So this file gets outdated. Hey, we are at 0.79, and that file is 0.62. * miasma: think that's not the problem to draw some circles on an actually map * hendrik: With a multi layer file, we can just tell gimp to do that work for us. * superkym: luckily there was an easy solution * superkym: and tigertoes has agreed to create the multilayered file * plassy: if you can generate the map and you know where the locations are positioned, then you can calculate the circle positions * hendrik: another thing that can be done with the multi layer images is to draw the region borders in there. ~~== Training ==~~ * Oslsachem: heder suggests to make it easier to level up skills * love_puppet: like a training room? ~~== First 5 minutes of new players ==~~ * hendrik: There is one topic we skipped: The first 5 minutes of new players. * hendrik: I am not sure if we should discuss that now or call it a day. * tigertoes: please, call it a day * bluekiller: who make it new? * hendrik: This meeting already took 2,5 hours and i am getting exhausted. * love_puppet: i think thare should be a place where u have to read the rules befor your player can be made * Oslsachem: oh I thought we were still on small details :) * humana: so iam back * tigertoes: i am past exhaustion * storyteller: yes, love puppet * love_puppet: so player can not say when a rule is broken that they dident know * storyteller: I agree * porl: i agree * humana: what do you speak about? * superkym: love puppet you are told after a certain time about the rules page, that's a tutorial message * superkym: every new player gets it - i think after 15 minutes of playing time * Oslsachem: the first 5 minutes since logging in or since clicking play now? * porl: my friend created an account named porn, and got ban because he didnt know, so i think it would be a good idea * humana: puppet I agree what you are saying! * hendrik: for a new player. * porl: me too * hendrik: There is a tutorial event about the rules after 60 minutes. * superkym: one of the ideas behind stendhal was to make it accessible for people to just create an account and see the world * hendrik: In the past only 20% of all players stayed more than 5 minutes. * superkym: forcing to read rules would be the opposite of that. we are really keen that people can visit and see it easily * yoriy: i have offer: insert rules to tutorial completely. * humana: yes that's important... cannot be that there are some names like porn, with that you can't login? * hendrik: we are now at about 50%. ~~=== Prevent new players from getting lost ===~~ * bluekiller: we can make arrows on the map for new players * bluekiller: so they know where they have to walk * superkym: bluekiller that's a nice idea. from semos vilage to semos city you mean? * bluekiller: to bank, to public chest * bluekiller: yes * bluekiller: to bank to public chest * hendrik: Letting them start in 0_semos_village and asking them to kill something quickly was a huge improvement. * yoriy: i dont like this arrows idea. players can speak with various npcs * porl: i know its not the subject but, why did gladiatthor get ban? he was lvl 440? * superkym: hm. the minimap already shows a 'N' just for new players. i wonder if it can show arrows there. * bluekiller: yes * superkym: porl, it definitely is not the subject and it's not something we would ever discuss, why players would get banned * bluekiller: yes * bluekiller: ask later * porl: ok * hendrik: There is a problem of players getting lost. * superkym: yoriy , it's to get them from the village to the city * superkym: they only met one npc, say * bluekiller: we can make * superkym: and perhaps they didn't understand or listen when he said which way to walk * superkym: but an arrow is really visual * yoriy: hm * tigertoes: i hate to be a party poop, but i really need to get busy outside... i will look at rest of meeting online, thats all for coming, on my part, see you, bye * hendrik: The first task is to kill a rat. * bluekiller: but we can make that every new player have a home scroll in his bag * hendrik: There is a small hole in the fence north of the house. * hendrik: And the only rat visible was there. * erdnuggel: bb tiger * hendrik: That player went killed that rat, which was quite difficult with it running away. * hendrik: Returned to Hayunn but then walked off north again. * hendrik: And got lost. * love_puppet: ah but if we gave a free home scroll in the bag then some player would try to abuse that and make char just to get free home scrolls * porl: once this guy i dont remember the name, tought me how to pass the orb quest from the temple, i did it, then he told be to use, and i did! he didnt go with me, it was a trap. i got lost and died from ricesia * hendrik: There is a similar problem at the south. * hendrik: There is the huge "gate" poiting south. * bluekiller: hi * Mayor Sakhs: Welcome citizen! Do you need help? * miasma: you can fix the scrolls, puppet. * bluekiller: bye * Mayor Sakhs: Have a good day and enjoy your stay! * bluekiller: :D * hendrik: And only a very invisible path poitnting to semos city. * samson: phone .. afk * porl: there should be a button to toggle the path to semos, so that a player would know, that would be easier * hendrik: perhaps the gate can be moved from semos village to semos city? * porl: yes * hendrik: and the hole in the fence closed? * porl: i had problems with that * bluekiller: why * bluekiller: yes * superkym: the hole is deliberate so people can pass through if they want to, it's only tiny * hendrik: okay, you can easily get stuck when you walk from semos city over to the village. * superkym: maybe once gates worked it could be a gate instead? * superkym: but yes, he huge sign entrance thing could be moved over to semos * hendrik: but perhaps we can prevent that people walking into that direction get trapped inside the fence? * superkym: do we have any graphic for a sign in that orientation * hendrik: I don't know. * superkym: and what would you do to prevent people going to the forest, even so? * superkym: perhaps semos village was just a bad place to start them * yoriy: brb * hendrik: Another idea would be to add that sign gate at the south of semos city. * superkym: and they should start in a house in the city instead * hendrik: And close the passage south in the village. * porl: lol * hendrik: i suggest that we have a small but closed training area for new players. * porl: while everyone is here, im going to take the chance and get grain, bye * superkym: thats why i moved it to the village, before. when they arrived in the townhall it coudl be very confusing at first * superkym: so many npcs and players running around the city. so i thought a quiet room in the village was better * hendrik: yes, i agree. * hendrik: and i am suggesting to closing it even more. * erdnuggel: sounds good to me * Oslsachem: only for new players? * superkym: can certainly try moving the sign but i think we need a new graphic, and yes the path to the forest could be changed * gido: HOWDY at all * bluekiller: howdy * miasma: cheers gido * superkym: so that it cuts down from semos through semos plains s * superkym: instead of from the village * hendrik: Oslsachem, we should prevent other players from accidently getting stuck. That is very annoying and the reason why the hole in the fence was created. * hendrik: Because if you walk over from city to village at bank level, you get into the confined area. * storyteller: what about a level- gate at the hole in the fence and at the gate south? So you can only go to Semos City with level 0 and at level 5 or so you can pass the fence or the gate to the south. * hendrik: I think that is a good idea. * storyteller: Like at the gnomw- village, but just the other way round? * storyteller: * gnome * superkym: or make the fenced area smaller * porl: grain was gone :( * erdnuggel: sorry guys, I am hungry and have to go... will be back later * hendrik: superkym, yes. * superkym: channel them through but leave plenty space around the edges * blackfinix: bye hendrik * blackfinix: bye erdnuggel,i mean * blackfinix: :) * superkym: if you walk out past carmen you'd go into teh small channelled fenced areas but otherwise, you'd go into the unfenced region * hendrik: yes. * Oslsachem: NPCs guarding level gates make them look more natural... * bluekiller: the other style from balrog was better:D * hendrik: and perhaps still put the city gate right to Carmen. So that this will become the prefered path to Nalwor for non-new players. ~~=== Warning new players running into dangerous zones ===~~ * hendrik: Can we have zone entry messages that are level based? * superkym: i dont see why not * superkym: i like the region messages idea too * Oslsachem: what for, for example? * superkym: that shouldn't be forgotten * hendrik: So if a new player walks to the west of semos village, he could get a warning. * storyteller: yes * bluekiller: yes * superkym: oslsachem, every time you head towards X location while you are still less than level 30 you get warned but after that why do you need it * storyteller: just to tell him that he better turn round * kiheru: current code does not do them, but extending the functionality a bit would be easy * storyteller: Well, what about to do a quest, which leads the new player to a NPC in Semos City? ~~=== Losing Club on Death ===~~ * hendrik: Some time ago it was possible to lose your club when being killed. * porl: it still is * hendrik: And you can not kill a rat easily with just your hands. * hendrik: It may be a good idea to prevent that. * storyteller: hmm... maybe add a "basic damage"... * storyteller: for the players who lost their club * storyteller: just 1 ATK or so... ~~=== Killing the first creature ===~~ * hendrik: It may be too difficult for new players to kill a rat because they are running away. * superkym: gummipferd he didn't mean training like camping * superkym: just teaching about the game, i think * hendrik: yes. * superkym: hendrik yes, that is true. perhaps it shoudl be a different creature you are first asked to kill * superkym: something that is not a coward * hendrik: learn how to fight, how to talk to npcs, etc. * superkym: and perhaps it could even be in the guard house * storyteller: yes...hmm... * bluekiller: hoi * superkym: i think rats should be cowards, and they were made stupid cowards so they are easier to kill * superkym: (stupid cowards don't turn corners to run away) * blackfinix: i guess you dont like rats in real life kym? * superkym: but the new player could be asked to kill something else * hendrik: Just in case anyone is wondering: superkym is talking about the AI profile. * Oslsachem: hendrik, the difficulty is mainly proportional to the space the rats have to run... :) * superkym: blackfinix ?? * bluekiller: they are in fado castle * bluekiller: or? * superkym: rats should be scared of you and run away when you try hit them * bluekiller: yes * hendrik: so having a rat in the small guard house may help. * superkym: = they should be cowards * hendrik: ? * hendrik: or something else? * porl: archers are really anoying when ther run away * superkym: rats should be stupid cowards and not turn corners as you run after them * Oslsachem: I think so, and it adds to the atmosphere * superkym: because otherwise it i smuch too hard for low level players to kill them * superkym: hendrik i think a small mouse or rat which is special and not cowardly could be in the guard house * kiheru: a rat in the guardhouse would be a danger for new player who wants to find about gameplay * superkym: or maybe since it's a close space, it's not a problem that they ytry to run away * superkym: kiheru : a special creature which is really low damaging? * storyteller: well, what about to ask the NPC to "summon" (or let in) a special training enemy? * bluekiller: no * bluekiller: the * blackfinix: a giant flea? * hendrik: rats cannot hurt players. * storyteller: then there is no danger at first * bluekiller: Gashadokuro drop only noob things * Oslsachem: perhaps rats shouldn't attack... * hendrik: Well, in the past, did not check that recently. * bluekiller: the best monster * gummipferd: hendrik they can * bluekiller: Gashadokuro * hendrik: okay. * heder: bye my friends * heder: :) * superkym: storyteller, nice idea. maybe a rat or mouse can appear when the player agrees to try kill one * storyteller: yes, that´s my idea * hendrik: storyteller, we may need a summon meachnism, so that there is always one enemy if a new player arrives. But I guess the player should not have to ask for it being summoned. * superkym: i think it could happen when you agree to teh quest from hayunn * storyteller: yes * hendrik: okay, sounds like a good idea. * bluekiller: we can make a special house for raits * bluekiller: we can make a special house for raits * storyteller: :) * bluekiller: yes * bluekiller: nice idea blue * bluekiller: :D * superkym: ok. i will look into those things that we discussed to help the first 5 minutes then * Oslsachem: perhaps hayunn could give the player a piece of cheese and when the player dropped it to the ground, the rat appeared :) * blackfinix: i like that osl * storyteller: Maybe Hayunn also says: "Oh, how does this rat get in? Quick, kill it before it hurt´s you!" or something ;) * superkym: players probably won't know how to put cheese on the ground yet * superkym: that's something they are taught later, how to inspect corpses and how to move items around * Oslsachem: then make hayunn drop it :) * superkym: i wonder how many new players woudl then lay pieces of cheese everywhere and wait the rats to come * Oslsachem: and then do as storyteller says * bluekiller: :D lol * Oslsachem: except kill it before it eats the cheese * storyteller: yes ^^ * Oslsachem: I thought the rat was special :) * heder: hola * Mayor Sakhs: Welcome citizen! Do you need help? * storyteller: well, just something like that :) * Oslsachem: a cheese-rat * storyteller: ^^ * Mayor Sakhs: Have a good day and enjoy your stay! * bluekiller: who is from germany * bluekiller: ? * Oslsachem: me, hede * hamunu: me too * bluekiller: resident evil kommt * bluekiller: :D * heder: que sea mas facil de cuvir los skills * Oslsachem: me, heder * superkym: I think that's a good time to close the meeting maybe? * bluekiller: yes * blackfinix: yes! * hamunu: yes! * hendrik: I like the idea, but i suggest that we implement it in two steps: First get it to work and only than let Hayunn put down the cheese. * storyteller: hmm... * bluekiller: and make a rait:D? * gummipferd: hayunn could also put up a training puppet. old warrior getting scared of a rat sonds strange to me... * yoriy: what with agenda * hendrik: Perhaps it should be a smaller cheese image. * hendrik: gimipferd, he is not scared. * superkym: gummi - i don't think he's scared of it. he's just trying to teach. * hendrik: He asks the player to kill the rat because he things the player has too little experiance to even kill a rat. * Oslsachem: well, it happens that people are not scared of big animals while they are scared of smaller ones * heder: up skills very very fast * gummipferd: aah, so he intentionally drops the cheese? sry my brains have been working today * hendrik: gummi, yes. * heder: make much raids * kiheru: or lets a rat out of a cage, or whatever * Oslsachem: I was thinking about hayunn accidentally dropping the cheese while offering it to the player * blackfinix: which is the way it should be i think * plassy: i'll go too. i will have a look at the java sound api in the next week