Stendhal Development Meeting 2014-04-02: Difference between revisions

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On the 2<sup>nd</sup> we had a development meeting regarding recent changes to the Stendhal website and future plans. Please find a summary of the meeting below.
On the 2<sup>nd</sup> April 2014, we had a development meeting regarding recent changes to the Stendhal website and future plans. Please find a summary of the meeting below.



== New unified search ==
== New unified search ==
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* Mostly positive feedback
* Mostly positive feedback
* Sometimes it is unclear, why certain results are included and other are not shown: When you search for a black sword, the result shows the black giant but not one of the other ones who drop it. Black giant, however, is not shown because it drops "black sword", but because it has both words in its description: "You see a tall black giant. His armor and sword will hit you hard. Be prepared!"
* Sometimes it is unclear, why certain results are included and other are not shown: When you search for a black sword, the result shows the black giant but not one of the other ones who drop it. Black giant, however, is not shown because it drops "black sword", but because it has both words in its description: "You see a tall black giant. His armor and sword will hit you hard. Be prepared!"
* It might be a good idea to return the creature which drop a searched item. At least if it a rare item (e. g. not money).
* It might be a good idea to return the creature which drop a searched item. At least if it is a rare item (e. g. not money).
* It may be a good idea, to convert the search boxes for players, items, npcs, etc. to use the unified search as well, with a filter. For example a row of checkboxes like [_] Creature [_] Item [X] Player.
* It may be a good idea, to convert the search boxes for players, items, npcs, etc. to use the unified search as well, with a filter. For example a row of checkboxes like [_] Creature [_] Item [X] Player.
* People don't notice the new search box. It's not close to the item/player sections so it does not work as a reminder.
* Multiple people did not notice the new search box. It's not close to the item/player sections so it does not work as a reminder. Upper right hand corner seems to be used on many website. But that is very far away from the focus of attention. We might want to move it into the World guide navigation box.
* Upper right hand corner seems to be used on many website. But that it is very far away from the focus of attention. We might want to move it into the World guide navigation box.
* Actually, position of the search box may be a good path to another topic.
* Actually, position of the search box may be a good path to another topic.


== Content of start page ==
== How should the start page look like, in order to be attractive to new people as well as seasoned players? ==

<!--
* How should the start page look like, in order to be attractive to new people as well as seasoned players?
[20:15] <slady> hello everybody! :)
* At the moment, the start page has a lot of news, with quite a long history of old entries. New players are probably not interested in them.
[20:15] <jorgemartin> I had never seen that box because it is in a place that does not draw attention
* More information about the game, not just the events that happen here
[20:15] <Carpiza> Hi
* Games stats, like how many rooms, how many creatures, how many maps
[20:15] <hendrik> At the moment, the start page has a lot of news. Most of them are rather old.
* buzzwords like "free to play"
[20:16] <hendrik> I am wondering, if new players are really interested in them. Especially people who do not know Stendhal yet.
** free is in the center
[20:16] <sakuraa> I think we should have more information about the game, not just the events that happen here
** we need a nice way to make it clear, that it is really free. There are many other games which claim "free to play", but than require you to buy items or tokens later on.
[20:16] <Bluelads4> I agree with that
** "Your current game only goes to level 99? Turn it all the way up to 597! Come play on Stendhal! Free and always will be!"
[20:16] <borgomatic> How about listing a few games stats, like how many rooms, how many creatures, how many maps and
* content
[20:17] <hendrik> What kind of information should we provide for new people on the start page?
** gallery with images and videos of the gameplaying at a more central place, as slideshows
[20:17] <borgomatic> ... things like that?
** show some items of our game, creatures, tutorial videos and other
[20:17] <Bluelads4> and maybe making it a bit more "dynamic"
** basic information on how to understand the game
[20:17] <jorgemartin> also there are not many events that highlight
** pictures of the most attractive animals such as pegasus
[20:17] <slady> buzzwords like "free to play" :)
** make it more obvious, that there is more than one screenshot/video.
[20:17] <Bluelads4> free is in the center :)
* dynamic
[20:17] <Carpiza> maybe a full gallery with images of the gameplaying?
** featuring an item, creature or npc every day/week, like Wikipedia's "Did you know?".
[20:17] <borgomatic> Yes! Free is alway good
** choose one item to be shown on the site, and so on, it is also important to highlight the properties of it, such as strength and attack
[20:18] <hendrik> Is there a nice way to make it clear, that it is really free. I have seen may games which claim "free to play", but than require you to buy items or tokens later on.
** popup-image library can do slideshows, so that would be easy to implement.
[20:18] <hendrik> many*
** use popups for videos, too
[20:18] <sakuraa> Could show some items of our game, creatures, tutorial videos and other
** slide-show images need roughly the same size. If you look through the current selection of screenshots, the window grows and shrinks a lot.
[20:19] <sakuraa> Could also have some rules and basic information on how to understand the game
** at the moment a click on the Movie-box throws you to a huge wiki page, we could think about using one of these videopages, except of youtube, for using direct links to an official account
[20:19] <hendrik> Yes, we could move the screenshot and movie boxes to a more central place.
** We should look into streaming Stendhal, perhaps for official tutorial, perhaps just for normal game play.
[20:19] <jorgemartin> You can put pictures of the most attractive animals such as pegasus
** Special front page for mobile devices might be a good idea, e. g. easy access to postman messages
[20:19] <hendrik> And try to make it more obvious, that there is more than one screenshot/video.

[20:20] <sakuraa> yes
== Navigation menu ==
[20:21] <hendrik> About the dynamic part: What about featuring an item, creature or npc every day/week?

[20:21] <Carpiza> it is possible to extend the world via user mods or is to heavy to the game server?
* Draft structure of navigation menu
[20:21] <hendrik> Something like Wikipedia's "Did you know?".
** Idea 1: screenshots and movies into media, world guide and player guide into guide
[20:21] <Bluelads4> that sounds nice
** Idea 2: About (Screenshots, Videos), World Guide (regions, items, ...), Player Guide (how to play), Community (Chat, Hall of fame), and Development.
[20:21] <jorgemartin> an event every week would be good to draw attention
* Drop down menu or keep the current always visible menus
[20:22] <Bluelads4> and in relation to videos and screenshots: maybe some slideshows?
** Drop down menus make the webpage a bit more "active"
[20:22] <hendrik> Carpiza, I think that is a rather large topic, which would get us too far away from the website topic.
** It will not be that full with headlines and tabs
[20:22] <Carpiza> ok
** It's used like that on many pages I think so people will know how to work with that
[20:23] <sakuraa> Every week, choose one item to be shown on the site, and so on, it is also important to highlight the properties of it, such as strength and attack
* JavaScript is not an issue for crawlers (e. g. Google)
[20:23] <hendrik> I think the new popup-image library can do slideshows, so that would be easy to implement.
** Drop down menus work without JavaScript by linking to a page with the sub menus. For example https://stendhalgame.org/world.html
[20:23] <Carpiza> dont realize that was the topic today
** The complete menu exists in the html code, but is hidden via css, so still accessible to crawler.
[20:23] <Bluelads4> what would be nice is to have some more tutorial videos or stuff like that but that needs some time actually

[20:23] <hendrik> We may need to use images which are roughly the same size. If you look through the current selection of screenshots, the window grows and shrinks a lot.
== Integration of Wiki content ==
[20:24] <Bluelads4> and there is mostly just one player in *cough* :D
* Examples [https://stendhalgame.org/player-guide/beginner-guide.html Beginner's Guide], [https://stendhalgame.org/quest/armor_for_dagobert.html Armor for Dagobert].
[20:24] <akiraa> yes could create more creatures and hidden maps, secret passage or specific quest to get into these areas a
* Wiki integration into the website seems to work reasonable well.
[20:24] <jorgemartin> sakura the idea is good, change each week the appearance of the page.
* Dungeon information on the atlas still point to the wiki, will be fixed after the next Stendhal release
[20:24] <Bluelads4> at least when it's about the region/area screenshots and stuff
* Dungeon and read pages
[20:25] <hendrik> Yes. And for the videos that already exists, we may find a way to make them more easy to pick. At the moment a click on the Movie-box throws you to a huge wiki page.
** Still missing some information, please contribute
[20:25] <dustofatk> screenshots and movies into media
** Some pages are using lots of information with a huge background story, others contain lots of items and stuff...
[20:25] <sakuraa> No need to change everything, but upgrade yes, that would leave more attractive and more interesting page
* Split of the quest page
[20:25] <dustofatk> world guide and player guide into guide
** - Browser search does not work anymore because of the individual pages
[20:25] <Morg> can i trow something out there? about translater?
** - Unified search box does not find "banker" or "banking" on a search for "bank"
[20:26] <hendrik> The navigation menu is another complex topic.
** + Does not spoil all quests
[20:27] <jorgemartin> hi
** + Old page was too long to keep attention
[20:27] <Bluelads4> We could think about using one of these videopages, except of youtube, for using direct links to an official account maybe? when it's about tutorials for example... or implementing a player. not sure though how that could be done
* Linking related information
[20:27] <akiraa> you guys are 10 : D
** Region pages should point to quests, needs manual work
[20:27] <Bluelads4> or if it can be done at all
** Item, creature and NPC pages should point to quests, might be generated automatically
[20:27] warace has joined Stendhal.
** We might want to add keywords (e. g. region) to the quest pages, e. g. search for "bank" and get dagobert, the nalwor quests, ...
[20:27] <hendrik> I will look into embedding the player into the image popup.
* What do we do with the wiki pages on items, creatures and npcs. They have little/some additional information to the normal wepages
[20:29] <hendrik> I have a very early draft. It consists of a top level menus of About (Screenshots, Videos), World Guide (regions, items, ...), Player Guide (how to play), Community (Chat, Hall of fame), and Development.

[20:29] <Bluelads4> think at least the focus currently is on gameplay videos, when people want to inform themselves about a game
== Other topics ==
[20:29] <dustofatk> a website is the center and if u use others like youtube, twitter and so on it needs to directly bring to ur page too

[20:29] <hendrik> I am not sure whether to have drop down menus, or keep the current always visible menus.
* Translation
[20:29] <Morg> i think it also would be good to have a translation box on here so you can talk to people without changing sites to try translating what they have to say
** [https://translate.google.com/ Google Translate] is pretty good, but has privacy issue
[20:30] <borgomatic> "Your current game only goes to level 99? Turn it all the way up to 597! Come play on Stenhal! Free and always will be!"
** Using a browser to translate text works more or less. Need to pay attention not to be killed in game for example
[20:30] <Bluelads4> drop down menus make the webpage a bit more "active" I think and it will not be that full with headlines and tabs
** Integrating Google Translate costs about $40 per month.
[20:30] <dustofatk> menus make in a way that it works without any scripts
** More detailed discussion: https://sourceforge.net/p/arianne/feature-requests/1321/
[20:30] <sakuraa> good phrase
* Mobile client
[20:30] <hendrik> Yes, the website does work without javascript and will continue to work without it. But it is nicer, if javascript is enabled.
** first step is to work on a user interface design (e. g. touching a creature for attack will move the hand between the screen and the eyes).
[20:30] <dustofatk> robots cant follow scripts and that u need for better page ranking
** recoding the client would be a lot of work.
[20:31] <Bluelads4> and it's used like that on many pages I think so people will know how to work with that :)

[20:33] <Bluelads4> not sure about a translation feature... most of these don't work in an accurate way
[20:33] <sakuraa> agree
[20:33] <epidio> but it can help
[20:33] <akiraa> could create a level 590 creature called cloud of death for her stay in Kinka :)
[20:34] <jorgemartin> You can add a translation bar
[20:34] <hendrik> We can have drop down menus, which are visible to robots.
[20:34] <hendrik> especially google.
[20:34] warace has left Stendhal.
[20:34] <jorgemartin> one weapon with rate 0 for train
[20:35] <Morg> its a hassle tho if someone talkes to you in a diffrent language you have to leave the site go to a translatiing site and then your luck you die
[20:35] <hendrik> The trick is that the top level entries are links which lead to a page with the sub menu.
[20:35] <hendrik> For example https://stendhalgame.org/world.html
[20:36] <Bluelads4> it actually always worked for me with the translation thingy...or I placed my character into a save region before I opened a translator :)
[20:36] <Morg> about training, there should be a training station where you can train only without people trying to kill you while your training
[20:36] <kiheru> Morg: There was recently a feature request for translation for the client: https://sourceforge.net/p/arianne/feature-requests/1321/
[20:36] <hendrik> Please let us stay on topic.
[20:37] <Carpiza> Sry, going to lunch bye
-->
== Is the new integration of Wiki content a good idea and working properly? ==
<!--
[20:38] <hendrik> As far as I can tell, it seems to work reasonable well.
[20:38] <hendrik> But please report any issue you find.
[20:39] <hendrik> I am talking about pages like https://stendhalgame.org/quest/armor_for_dagobert.html
[20:39] <Bluelads4> I think that if you click on the atlas/map and want to get information about a dungeon there with clicking on the entrance on the map, you are still guided to the wiki
[20:39] <Bluelads4> not sure if that should also be a link on the official page
[20:39] <hendrik> Yes, I think it should.
[20:40] <Bluelads4> there are still lots of area pages and dungeon pages which don't contain all information, haven't had time so far to look into that again
[20:40] <hendrik> Because of the way this information is gathered, it requires a Stendhal update.
[20:40] <dustofatk> i like the all in one pages more as i can use the search in browser to find things
[20:41] <hendrik> What about the unified search box?
[20:41] <dustofatk> never tried that
[20:41] <Bluelads4> and we should think about making these pages a bit more in-line, like using one style
[20:42] <slady> that is true
[20:42] <hendrik> Can you try to give an example about the style?
[20:43] <Bluelads4> like some are using lots of information with a huge background story, others contain lots of items and stuff... it's more about the content of the pages here what I mean :)
[20:43] <jorgemartin> hi
[20:43] <jacqueline> hi
[20:43] <dustofatk> well the search dosnt work... at least unusable for more demanding stuff
[20:44] <dustofatk> if u want to find dagobert quest u search for bank... no offer for the dagobert quest
[20:44] gepaecktraeger2 has joined Stendhal.
[20:44] <dustofatk> if u search bank quest no dagobert offered
[20:45] <Bluelads4> you can search for dagobert and get the quest information
[20:45] <dustofatk> i dont know dagobert
[20:45] <dustofatk> i know there is a bank quest
[20:45] gepaecktraeger2 has left Stendhal.
[20:45] <Bluelads4> so you mean you want to search for a map name instead of a NPC for example?
[20:45] <dustofatk> im new i dont know names
[20:45] <martinf> hello :)
[20:45] <dustofatk> i was looking for the bank quest
[20:45] <Bluelads4> like you search for "bank" and get dagobert, the nalwor quests and stuff then? (just asking for understanding here :))
[20:46] <dustofatk> yes
[20:46] <dustofatk> but u dont get the dagobert quest
[20:46] <hendrik> The dagobert quest description does not contain the word "bank", so it is not found.
[20:46] <Bluelads4> so this would maybe be an issue of linking more words to the search filter thingy?
[20:46] <Horst> hallo
[20:46] <hendrik> It does contain "banker" and "baking" through.
[20:46] <jorgemartin> hi
[20:46] <Horst> na meiner
[20:46] <dustofatk> right and thats an example why the all in one pages are better as u find that way with bank the dagobert quest
[20:47] Bluelads4 will add "bank" to the quest page :D
[20:47] <hendrik> that is an example, why it might make sense to find sub-words.
[20:47] <dustofatk> yes
[20:47] <hendrik> but I am afraid of too many false positives, at least without further research.
[20:48] <slady> and also the NPC pages can contain position information
[20:48] <hendrik> The Wiki search is kind of limited.
[20:49] <hendrik> The unified search uses a self written index for all the information it extracts from the server. But for the wiki pages, it uses the wiki search engine.
[20:49] <slady> one newby was chasing me asking where is Jenny recently
[20:49] <Bluelads4> maybe we should add the areas/regions/interior map names to the quest pages... might that maybe help for now? :)
[20:49] <hendrik> and then it merges the results form both sources.
[20:49] <Bluelads4> at least to catch the right results for quests
[20:50] <slady> area or region would help
[20:51] <akiraa> got to get good job to you
[20:51] <akiraa> going out
[20:51] <akiraa> bye
[20:51] <akiraa> :D
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== We have about 10 minutes left. Are there other ideas to improve the website? ==
<!--
[20:51] <akiraa> XD
[20:52] <Bluelads4> I can work around adding the information
[20:52] <Bluelads4> on the quest pages I mean
[20:52] <hendrik> Or perhaps even offers to help with the work on it?
[20:52] <borgomatic> I think we could make a special front page for mobile users.
[20:52] <dustofatk> no promices...
[20:53] <dustofatk> mobile is a need on its own
[20:53] Bluelads4 raises her hand :D
[20:53] <hendrik> Yes, mobile devices is something to be kept in mind when we redesign the front page.
[20:53] <dustofatk> not only page but also game
[20:53] <hendrik> While we are very far away from being able to play stendhal on mobile, it should be able to get information.
[20:53] <hendrik> Perhaps even read postman message.
[20:53] <Bluelads4> what I also named in the IRC was maybe trying to stream stendhal, not sure if that should happen in an official way (e.g. tutorials) or other stuff... wanted to think about that and if it can be used in a way.
[20:53] <dustofatk> because i would attrack a lot of ppl if there are versions for mobile
[20:54] <Bluelads4> the videos can be linked, too then
[20:54] <dustofatk> very far? i thought java 8 should make it easier
[20:54] <kiheru> getting again offtopic, but mobile version of the game requires a complete rewrite of the UI - which is most of the client
[20:55] <hendrik> Before we even think about code, we need to think about a usability concept.
[20:56] <hendrik> e. g. Stendhal is very heavy on NPC chat. And having to touch in the middle of the screen, e. g. to attack a creature, moves your hand between your eyes and the screen.
[20:57] <hendrik> Java 8 does not really add anything which makes it significantly easier to code for mobile devices.
[20:58] <slady> the whole HUD has to be redesined for mobile devices
[20:59] <hendrik> Okay, thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas regarding the Stendhal website. While we cannot add everything right away, the discussions was very helpful.
-->
== Conclusion ==
== Conclusion ==
* Thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas regarding the Stendhal website. While we cannot add everything right away, the discussion was very helpful.
<!--
[20:59] hendrik Thank you for attenting this meeting.
* Thank you for attending this meeting.
* Feel free to join us in the [https://stendhalgame.org/chat arianne chat channel] and contribute
[20:59] <hendrik> -----------------------------------------
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