Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22/Result Log: Difference between revisions

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{{Navigation for Stendhal Top|Developing}}
{{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}}
{{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}}
{{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}}


== Mixed Things ==
== Mixed Things ==


* /ignore currently only works for /tell but it should work for public chat, too
* /ignore currently only works for /tell but it should work for public chat, too - this is being worked on ({{tracker|2872361}})
* "Strongest player" on website should be sorted by karma as second sort criterion because of the max level limit.
* "Strongest player" on website should be sorted by karma as second sort criterion because of the max level limit ({{tracker|2905264}}).
* Animal masks from Fidorea in ados should stay longer than 2 hours, for example for 2 days. Perhaps with additional fees.
* It was suggested that animal masks from Fidorea in ados could stay longer than 2 hours, for example for 2 days. Perhaps with additional fees.
* blackfinix offered to update the [[StendhalManual]] and embed the referenced images by uploading them to the Wiki.
* blackfinix offered to update the [[StendhalManual]] and embed the referenced images by uploading them to the Wiki (<del>{{tracker|2892214}}</del> ''fixed by kiheru and kymara'').
* Enabled and minimized keyring pops up on every zone change (<del>[http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1815905&group_id=1111&atid=101111 bug #1815905]</del> fixed)
* Enabled and minimized keyring pops up on every zone change (<del>{{tracker|1815905}}</del> fixed)
* npc to sell armors to
* It was requested to have an npc to sell armors to which you can not sell to other npcs
* black pearl image
* The black pearl image could be improved (done; a new image in CVS now)
* An NPC for offering items to other players in being worked on


== Mute ==
== Mute ==


* /mute should to be remembered across restarts.
* /mute should to be remembered across restarts (<del>{{tracker|2880973}}</del> fixed).
* the command could be more user friendly: /mute instead of the confusing "/sound mute on" and "/sound mute off"
* the command could be more user friendly: /mute instead of the confusing "/sound mute on" and "/sound mute off" (<del>{{tracker|2905154}}</del> fixed).


== Summon Scrolls ==
== Size of bag ==


* The bag is always too small.
* Summon scrolls should become more power if you use them repeatably.
* It may be a good idea to let players earn the right to get more storage, like the keyring.
* That was the original plan but there are some issues:
* There is some work in progress on boxes and backpacks and so on
* Problem: Summoned Creatures had scaling issues with the old RP-fighting rules:
** Creatures are balanced to attack players who ware armor
** Creatures don't wear armor, so summoned creatures win against them easily.
** Need to reevaluate with the new RP-fighting rules.
* Problem: Someone could summon a very big creature right outside Semos then.
* If we make the protection more fine grained, the low protection areas could allow stronger monsters to be summoned
* Perhaps limiting the summoning to creatures who are on these maps? For example on a map which only hosts rats, you can just summon rats there.
* Are summoned creatures an advantage if limited like this?
* All in all: More powerful summoned creatures are very interesting but this needs to be approached carefully


== Poison ==
== Size of bag (need summary) ==
* vomit: i think the bag, which you take with you, should be a little bigger
* vomit: i always have problems, because my bag is full
* superkym: vomit, that is something being worked on :) not bigger bag - but boxes and backpacks and so on
* superkym: backpacks and boxes and containers are all very much being worked on. the keyring would then also work like this


* Poisoning creatures are disliked by some players
** well, that is the idea behind them
** fit well into the world
* There should be poison arrows and weapons
** currently only players can be poisoned, needs some moving of code blocks
** those weapons should be created by the adventurers by applying poison to them ({{tracker|1591445}})
* there should be special antidotes for stronger poison


== Poisonous Weappons (need summary) ==
== Stackable item handling ==


* ctrl+drag does not work if you take the item from a chest
* shinigami: could u create poision weapons?
* there should be the reverse of /drop 2 items to take 2 items from the chest
* blackfinix: shinigami cool idea
* yoriy: we can but for example i dont like this
* even better a menu for that which pops up on ctrl drag
* superkym: shinigami, that's rather an old feature request :) poison arrows too :)
* vomit: i even dislike poisoned creatures
* hendrik: I like them.
* superkym: i like poisonous creatures, i think it's very interesting
* erdnuggel: I like them too :)
* blackfinix: i like them too. except they are not really a threat after a certain level
* superkym: to have different styles of fighting and different things can happen
* love_puppet: :D then creatures will hate you then with a posion weapon
* vomit: isn't it already possible to poison creatures with a codeline?
* blackfinix: there should be a graded use or special antidotes for stronger poison from creatures
* vomit: i think i read about this once
* superkym: i'm not familiar with that vomit. as far as i knew currently only players can be poisoned. but that' snot to say it wouldnt' be possible to code it
* kiheru: I I think poison handling is done in Player atm. so it needs some work before it works for any creature


== Quest Contribution ==
== Taking some stackable items from chest (need summary) ==


* [[Stendhal Quest Contribution]] explains how a quest is created. Starting with a very first rough idea and ending with an implemented and well tested quest that is fun to play.
* yoriy: id like to have a feature to take only one stackable object from chest if there is several
* There are already some ideas at [[Stendhal Quest Ideas]] in various states of completion.
* superkym: a bit like the ctrl-drag yoriy?
* It is a good idea to join [http://stendhal.game-host.org/?id=content/game/chat #arianne] and talk about your ideas, especially before you start to put lots of work into it.
* superkym: but to work for chest as well as bag?
* yoriy: better menu punkt
* blackfinix: yes like the reverse of /drop 2 items
* yoriy: right
* kiheru: at least the ctrl drag should work there too
* kiheru: it's confusing that it does not
* superkym: i think that's a bug, really
* superkym: you expect it to work
* superkym: would you make a bug report please yoriy?
* yoriy: i will try ctrl-drag first
* yoriy: but i liketo see it in menu anyway
* humana: all right yoriy?
* tigertoes: i just tried the ctrl move from chest and it doesnt work
* superkym: yes tigertoes that's why i asked to make a bug report
* tigertoes: was just saying cause yoriy wanted to try it before he did bug rpt


== Quest Log (need summary) ==
== Quest Log ==


* We want a quest log that records the progress of quests ({{tracker|1716575}}).
*Helping Tad

* For example something like this: Helping Tad
** I have met Tad in Semos Townhall
** I have met Tad in Semos Townhall
** He asked me to buy a flask from Margaret in Semos Tavern.
** He asked me to buy a flask from Margaret in Semos Tavern.
** I got a flask and will bring it to Tad soon.
** I got a flask and will bring it to Tad soon.
** Tad asked me to take the flask to ilisa at Semos Temple.
** Tad asked me to take the flask to Ilisa at Semos Temple.
** Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove.
** Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove.
** Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove.
** Ilisa created a powerful potion to help Tad. She asked me to tell him that it is ready.
** Ilisa created a powerful potion to help Tad. She asked me to tell him that it is ready.
** Tad thanked me.
** Tad thanked me.
* hendrik: There is a feature in development that should list the quests and there progress.
* hendrik: It partly works already, You can try it out by typing this: /listquests IntroducePlayers
* hendrik: I guess we want a dialog window for that in the long run.
* hendrik: So it needs works at two ends:
* hendrik: The dialog window. And we need the texts that should be displayed.
* hendrik: The second part is something that everyone that knew the quests can help with. Even without knowing anything about coding computer programs.
* blackfinix: a short description of each quest? i could go through them and do that
* hendrik: Yes, it is a bit of work. But you don't have to do all quest, just a couple of quests, And I really think that is a cool feature.
* humana: I can help you blackfinix!
* blackfinix: ok
* superkym: not so much each quest but each possibel stage
* blackfinix: oh i understand
* superkym: some quests are already done
* blackfinix: if i can see them i could follow the style
* superkym: but we can provide a list of what needs doing, probably
* superkym: right
* blackfinix: ok
* humana: blackfinix?
* hendrik: It should be like a log showing the progress.
* blackfinix: ok timur :)
* humana: okay:)
* superkym: the wiki page about quests would also advise on this, since it says what each stage is, for each quest
* humana: we can speak later about it in more detail
* blackfinix: ok timur
* blackfinix: ok kym
* superkym: so that should be converted so it reads like a log
* humana: okay kymi..
* yoriy: looks like game walkthrough
* humana: so I have another thing
* superkym: but what about the gui?
* yoriy: what with that, kym?
* storyteller: Well, there should be different screen sizes in my opinion...
* superkym: the window should sit outside the game screen like the minimap, and buddies, or float over it? should it always be there? and can anyone volunteers?
* superkym: storyteller i mean the gui for the quest infrmation
* storyteller: okay
* yoriy: maybe it can be maked in book form?
* hendrik: Please have a look at http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml (click "download" and save the file to disk).
* blackfinix: brb
* hendrik: There is a list of quests already described.
* erdnuggel: or to show it with an kommand like "/myquests"
* humana: okay hendrik
* hendrik: Don't worry about the confusing <..: stuff, just the raw texts are file, too.
* humana: okay :)
* hendrik: are fine*
* humana: yes
* superkym: there is a fill in the blank type template too

== City Welcome Messages (need summary) ==

* humana: if you are your first time in a new city like FADO City... I like it if there is a welcome shield!!!... and it say like the guide... WELCOME IN FADO
* humana: how do you think about the welcome shields???
* hendrik: humana, do you mean signs?
* hendrik: "Verkehrsschilder?"
* humana: yes
* humana: sorry :)
* erdnuggel: I think he means a welcom-sign ;o)
* humana: yes
* humana: yes
* erdnuggel: * welcome
* humana: thank you erdnuggel :)
* hendrik: I like that idea.
* erdnuggel: np
* erdnuggel: yes, sounds good
* humana: so you know this first guide?
* superkym: a clickable sign to read? or a text that appears like when you enter some dungeons?
* humana: if you create a new account
* humana: the pink text
* humana: like this
* tigertoes: i like the text that appears... a zone thing
* humana: understand me? :D
* hendrik: yes

== Random (need summary) ==


* xkimetx: and mithril armor??
* xkimetx: have in web site
* xkimetx: but not there
* xkimetx: why??
* tigertoes: mithril armor quest is in development still, sorry kimet
* xkimetx: hmmm
* xkimetx: more monsters for drop great weapon
* xkimetx: you all are working in trade system??
* superkym: xkimetx it's in development, a trade NPC
* xkimetx: hmm
* xkimetx: and treiners
* xkimetx: 1 day
* xkimetx: u pay for train
* xkimetx: the hours
* xkimetx: lvls 500 can not train
* blackfinix: can we discuss pvp rules today?
* hendrik: blackfinix is that related to code or social?
* blackfinix: social
* bluekiller: what is with balrog?
* hendrik: Than that's something for a gm meeting. But we can talk about it at the end, I guess.
* xkimetx: kym
* xkimetx: new places
* blackfinix: ok
* xkimetx: in island
* xkimetx: have one place
* xkimetx: with u can not enter
* xkimetx: u can create a new place there
* xkimetx: but for lvl 400 +
* xkimetx: for players lvl up
* xkimetx: for go to there
* xkimetx: for players play more
* xkimetx: xD
* yoriy: bad idea
* xkimetx: why??
* yoriy: for lazy players only
* xkimetx: and new creatures
* blackfinix: i dont understand
* yoriy: :-)


* This feature is in development and already works partly: /listquests IntroducePlayers
* pepzs: i think can have new quests for example golden armor quest and chaos legs quest
* Starting with 0.80 /listquests without parameter will give you a list of all quests known to you
* xkimetx: hmmm
* Warning: On 0.79 /listquests without parameters might create such a long reply that the client crashes
* pepzs: for the low level can make
* superkym: pepzs, mightn't that be a little unbalanced?
* superkym: the idea is that the game is balanced and you get higher level armor when you have earned it. new quests to get items are fine, so long as they are balanced
* hamunu: hey
* hamunu: do we have apple juice in this game
* xkimetx: the trainer scroll
* storyteller: I am away now
* xkimetx: for u not need players for train
* xkimetx: why if u kill one player
* bluekiller: pcmtf
* xkimetx: u are marked with skull
* blackfinix: thats the gamble with training xkimetx
* xkimetx: or party system (/party (playe r)
* blackfinix: it shouldn't be without risks
* pepzs: yes more the players start with simple quest and simple armor xD
* xkimetx: and if u kill
* xkimetx: with party
* kiheru: we have tried to make the game so that it's not necessary to train. you can, and it has its advantages, but it's risky
* xkimetx: u are not be a pk
* hendrik: In the past training was something that was neccessary to get strong. But after we rewored the fighting rules you can get strong without training quicker.
* xkimetx: in this case
* xkimetx: the skull system
* pepzs: yes
* humana: hmm I will train to do my deathmatch alone
* xkimetx: not be if u kill only 1 players
* humana: :)
* xkimetx: but if u kill more of 1
* xkimetx: in 1 week
* superkym: hamunu, no we don't have it here
* humana: no apple juice?
* humana: so I found some apple and I thought
* pepzs: can retired the aura protection ans implant skull system
* humana: maybe we can create apple juice for this gamve :)
* superkym: humana it sounds like you already know there is some
* Oslsachem: kezman suggests making a training dagger which does a limited damage of 1 point per hit no matter the player's level and which gets used up when the player gets 1 point in both attack and defense experience. And the price is proportional to the player' level
* superkym: why else are you asking about it? maybe you saw the item on a test server or on the items page? it was an idea which was started and not finished
* pepzs: 1kill red skull 3 kill black skull and when take black skull can sell or buy anything from npc for 2 weeks
* superkym: have you a particular need for a new food/drink? we have so much
* hamunu: ahh no kymi.
* hamunu: iam fine with this food what here is..
* hendrik: I like the idea of having a way to use apples.
* hamunu: hmm but maybe for another thing
* superkym: did you see the thing in practise hendrik, which used them?
* erdnuggel: maybe you can bake a apple-pie :D
* hamunu: not for apple juice
* blackfinix: throw them at annoying players?)
* superkym: it was a food mill
* tigertoes: i like apple pie better than apple juice
* hamunu: maybe apple cake?
* superkym: and you could make apple juice from apples using it
* xkimetx: more fast the respawn????
* hamunu: apple pie :)
* blackfinix: apple schnaapps?
* xkimetx: of creatures
* xkimetx: or increase the drop
* hamunu: ahh that's a good idea
* hamunu: it works a little bit like poison!!
* hamunu: apple schnapps
* hamunu: if you drink it
* xkimetx: why demon fire sword 0.1%
* superkym: it is already coded but i think the idea of an item processor is so useful that it is worth making it more general
* hamunu: it's more difficult to walk
* xkimetx: soul dagger impossible
* xkimetx: chaos axe too
* superkym: so that we can process other items too. and not hard code in that it only uses apples and only makes juice
* kiheru: some items are rare on purpose
* hamunu: xkimetx
* hamunu: it isn't impossible!
* yoriy: right, lets do probabilities for all items of 100% :-)
* kiheru: still some players are lucky enough to find them
* hendrik: Oslsachem, kezman, it would be cool if there was a way to train by being active in game. I think the old camping system of gaining level by not playing but just being logged in is not good.
* hamunu: so I think kiheru have both weapons!
* hamunu: there are more than 2 soul daggers
* hamunu: I saw 3 players!
* blackfinix: i agree hendrik
* xkimetx: increase the def of mithril boots
* kiheru: the mithril boots could indeed be better. now nobody uses them
* hamunu: lol.. if you train you have to answer question of a quiz if you have under 5 points you die :P
* blackfinix: i do, because they are pretty :)
* hamunu: just kiddng :)
* pepzs: implant one weapon make of mithril =D
* hamunu: the boots of finix looks like my white converse chucks :D
* blackfinix: yes a mithril blade
* superkym: what kind of activity, hendrik?
* xkimetx: kkk
* xkimetx: no
* xkimetx: sword of fury
* blackfinix: yes hamunu:)
* xkimetx: axe of fury
* superkym: like you can only attack one player for 10 hits at a time
* xkimetx: rod of fury
* superkym: and then you stop the attack
* xkimetx: xD
* superkym: so you'd have to start it again?
* tigertoes: the mithril blade is being considered for something down the road
* superkym: something as simple as that?
* blackfinix: ok tigger
* hendrik: A couple of minutes ago, there was a short discussion about new quests. Should I explain how new quests are added, starting with a rough idea?
* tigertoes: yes hendrik
* xkimetx: amulets???
* xkimetx: have ring
* xkimetx: cloak
* blackfinix: is coding them difficult for beginners?
* xkimetx: but not have amulet
* xkimetx: xD
* hamunu: amulet is cool!
* kiheru: boxing ring where the opponents would get tired :-P (or knocked out)
* pepzs: yes amulet
* pepzs: xD
* superkym: no blackfinix, hendrik is going to explain that now
* blackfinix: ok


== Quest Contribution (need summary) ==


* There should be a dialogue window in the long run
* hendrik: A quest starts with a rough idea.
** One part showing the list of known quests
* hendrik: Sometimes those ideas are very detailed, sometimes they are just one sentences.
** The other part shows the log for the selected one
* pepzs: level request for make some quest
** Window should be outside the world not like the bag, but like the minimap or the help window
* hendrik: Like There should be an dunken soilders who wants a beer.
* The log itself is something that everyone that knew the quests can help with. Even without knowing anything about coding computer programs.
* pepzs: some players make mithril shield level 120 and can use only level 250
** blackfinix and humana volunteered to write some of the required texts. More volunteers are very welcomed.
* xkimetx: yes
** The [[StendhalQuest|wiki page about quests]] may help because it often advises on the different states of the quests
* xkimetx: but this level for use is good
** The work that has already been done can be seen at [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml?view=markup quests.xml] (right click on this link to [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/conf/quests.xml download])
* pepzs: is better implant one level for make the quests
* hamunu: yes I like it if you can use it with level 250
* hamunu: there is more fun to level up!
* hendrik: Those ideas should be discussed. Talk with other people about it. For example in #arianne.
* hendrik: * What is the quest about? * How does it fit into the world? * Which NPCs should take part in the quest? * What should the reward be? * Can the quest be done only once or repeatedly? * Are new items or monsters required?
* hendrik: Just some questions to help you focus on the important parts.
* hendrik: Don't worry, you are not alone.
* hamunu: ahh I think nobody answered my question... How do you think about a music house?
* hendrik: At the end there should be short description for the quest:
* hendrik: Title: Beer For Hayunn
* hendrik: Participants: Hayunn Naratha (the veteran warrior in Semos Village), Margaret (Semos inn)
* pepzs: hum
* hendrik: Steps:
* hendrik: 1. Hayunn asks you to buy a beer from Margaret.
* hendrik: 2. Margaret sells you a beer.
* pepzs: i think can have a level for enter where have entwife
* hamunu: I does that on another server...
* hendrik: 3. Hayunn sees your beer, asks for it and then thanks you.
* hendrik: Reward: 50 XP, 20 gold coins, Karma: 10
* hendrik: Repetitions: None
* hamunu: yes I think there is a page on arianne.sourceforge
* pepzs: the players up very fast on it can become same gnome vilage
* blackfinix: thanks hendrik
* hendrik: There are already some ideas at http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Ideas in various states of completion.
* hamunu: no this
* hamunu: finix
* hamunu: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalQuest
* hamunu: oh :P
* xkimetx: npcs for sale mega potions
* hamunu: ahh kimet
* hamunu: that's to easy
* xkimetx: xD
* vomit: i have to go
* hamunu: I don't like it if it's to easy
* vomit: cheers
* hamunu: bye
* hendrik: The next step is to write down the text the NPC should say.
* blackfinix: bye vomit
* hendrik: This can be part of the coding. But if someone like myself with limited knowledg of English codes the quest it is helpful to have those texts.
* superkym: at would stage should the quest idea be presented to arianne for discussion and approval?
* hendrik: If you want to read it up, you can have a look at http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Contribution
* samson: I too don't like it if it's to easy .... so lets take the empty scrolls out of the game
* superkym: should it be before lots of work is done working out the npcs texts?
* plassy: hoi... I right now tested the "stendhal_test1.zip" file at my local server. its pretty much faster
* blackfinix: ok hendrik
* hendrik: superkym, i'd say, the earlier the better.
* hendrik: The wiki page has a link to a tutorial for coding the quest.
* hendrik: But you can help without knowing how to write computer programs.
* xkimetx: kkkk
* xkimetx: compro gato
* blackfinix: I figured if I learned to code enough, at least for quests, i could focus on those
* hendrik: For example, I know how to write the code for a quest. But I am spending very little time in game. So I am missing the knowledge about the world of Stendhal in order to create a consistent one.
* kezman: :D
* xkimetx: where are bluelads???
* hendrik: blackfinix, http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Coding explains the coding of quest. It is not completed, yet. I am working on the tutorial.
* blackfinix: ok I am reading it now :)
* hendrik: if anyone wants to help with a new quest, but http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Stendhal_Quest_Ideas lists a few quests that may need further discussion and the texts the npcs should say.


== Client Performance (need summary) ==
== City Welcome Messages ==


* there could be a welcome message when you reach a city for the first time: Welcome in Fado
* plassy: err.. one thing... i recently observed something... it seams the client has an performance proplem. am i right?
* perhaps this could appear when you reach other areas for the first time
* superkym: plassy, even in 0.79?
* those text boxed may guide you
* hendrik: plassy we fixed one in the last release.
* or there may be a in world sign near the city entrance which points to the important locations
* plassy: iyes
* plassy: i played a bit with a local server and it lagged
* superkym: java server and java client running together would be quite resource hungry
* yoriy: i have some problems with Mandriva OS. My CPU was overheat, but i removed it and still have some troubles
* plassy: wait.. i havent tested the 0.97 release
* superkym: but, i don't know how good your machine is plassy
* miasma: ah is there a "minimum system requirements"-site in the stendhal-wiki?
* plassy: i have a quad-core intel 4gb ram
* plassy: lol
* blackfinix: my machine runs at 1GHZ and 256 ram. no problem in linux or windows
* superkym: perhaps you could try the 0.79 client
* plassy: i will
* miasma: that would be helpful i think if you can read on the wiki what''s the requirements
* miasma: * system requirements
* storyteller: yes, miasma
* superkym: Ok miasma, like which java version you need, and something about memory? we'd need to come up with what to put there though
* blackfinix: I put something on the wiki about java versions, but i think it disappeared
* miasma: yeah the java version and memory blah... that'S what i mean kym :D
* superkym: blackfinix - disappeared? if you log back in with your user, and look for your contrbutions, you could find it again
* blackfinix: ok i will
* plassy: the lagging occurs only if many fighting is done
* plassy: i will try the three clients
* hendrik: On some systems, the client gets a lot faster when starting it with java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true -jar stendhal-0.79.jar
* blackfinix: on linux run it su with "nice -n 19" helps
* hendrik: eeeeak.
* superkym: and i use -Xmx200m to raise the limit
* kiheru: nicing should not be necessary
* blackfinix: i have an ancient machine :)
* plassy: i'm jusing openjdk if that matters
* tigertoes: that will be great test then plassy
* plassy: who posted the three stendhal versions? what is the difference?
* hendrik: Those 3 test version are different in the way the drawing is synchronzied with the gui.
* plassy: the first one works perfectly
* plassy: i tested it with nearly 100 orcs on the srceen
* hendrik: plassy, can you test the 2nd one too?
* superkym: there certainly does become a client performance issue when you have a lot of entities
* plassy: the normal version hungs up imidiatly
* plassy: i will test the second on, sure...
* plassy: so... i tried the 0.79 release from the website and it laggs too


== Regions (need summary) ==
== Training ==
* We still need to teach that it's now not necessary to train, with the new RP - that gaining xp improves your abilities faster
* Training is still allowed, and it has its advantages, but it's risky
* Ideas were suggested to make training 'easier' like:
:* a training dagger which does a limited damage of 1 point per hit no matter the player's level and which gets used up when the player gets 1 point in both attack and defense experience. And the price is proportional to the player' level
:* weapons with rate less than 1 (it was explained that rate 1 means one hit per 1 turn, so it's not possible to go faster - it was claimed that in some other servers this is possible)
* It would be good if there was a way to train by being active in game. The old camping system of gaining level by not playing but just being logged in is not good.
:* if you train you have to answer question of a quiz (jokey suggestion)
:* after a certain number of hits you have to reselect to attack your partner so it is less 'hands off'
* Some players train to be able to cope better alone, e.g. in deathmatch


== Item availability ==
* hendrik: There is something else related to zone and quests.
* It was requested that the very rare items like demon fire sword and soul dagger become less rare
* hendrik: I think it would be cool if we had a wiki page for each "region". Which says something about the history, what the region is about.
* The best items are rare because it makes the game interesting and balanced
* superkym: Those ideas would still beed to be discussed a bit in #arianne i think. Some have been there for some time.
* Mithril armor was enquired about - the quest is still in development
* hendrik: For example Ados is a port-city.
* Mithril blade was mentioned but it is only an idea now
* hendrik: It suffers from not having enough food.
* It was suggested that new players should be able get some very good items with quests - again this would be unbalanced
* yoriy: hendrik, i guess Zynn Ivuhos have explanations for that wiki pages... :-)
* Amulets were mentioned but without any suggestion of what purpose they would have
* hendrik: It would be cool to have this information, which you can learn by talking to NPCs and solving quests, at one central place.
* Oslsachem: yes, the game needs more background story
* miasma: i could write a bit story but just in german
* superkym: There is some of that information here: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalAtlas#Places
* superkym: did you mean you would like that put into a wiki page for each place?
* Oslsachem: which can serve as a starting point for developing quests related with the plot
* hendrik: http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/StendhalAtlas#Places is a good starting point. But it needs quite a big of work. Perhaps even one article per city?
* superkym: there was a bit of an example started for semos village http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Semos_Village
* superkym: but like the manual that page has an external image which needs to be uploaded to the wiki. and of course it needs more work
* hendrik: For me it is difficult to add new NPCs or quests because I know too little about the history. I may easily add some inconsistancies.
* hendrik: Yeah, that page is cool.
* hendrik: We don't need something like that for every zone. But it would be really cool to have something like that for every region.
* plassy: the second version works great, too.
* hendrik: By region I mean a group of zones that are related. For example Ados City spans multiple zones.
* blackfinix: yes
* superkym: Why not the major regions as in that atlas link
* blackfinix: it shouldn't be too dificult
* plassy: maybe the problem is my client? i have a 0.77 client that is updated to 0.79
* hendrik: It is almost impossible for me, because I know too little about the world (I know staff about client-server communication, database access, finate state machines, ...) but thats not helpful here.
* superkym: plassy you could therefore try getting the 0.79 as a clean download and report back?
* hendrik: But those who actually play Stendhal can write it easily.
* storyteller: back again
* blackfinix: I probably could do it
* plassy: sure
* blackfinix: Im looking at the one for semos now
* superkym: the great thing about the wiki is that it is something anyone can edit, and history is always kept, so you don't need to feel afraid of it
* hendrik: Any volunteers?
* blackfinix: I'll do it if no one else wants to
* hendrik: The one about Semos Village is very outdated. It was written at time before Hayunn was moved there.
* yoriy: i can i think - i playing often enough
* superkym: what should the page titles be
* blackfinix: ok yoriy
* superkym: Semos ?
* hendrik: Cool. It is a lot of work, but every bit helps. And I guess it is good if multiple people contribute and share the workload.
* tigertoes: it is something many people can do... just keep in mind that multiple people might be updating at same time
* superkym: or Stendhal:Semos ?
* hendrik: without prefix.
* superkym: ok, just Semos , Ados etc then
* hendrik: yes.
* tigertoes: so dont open file to edit, let it sit for long time before committing
* blackfinix: And semos dungeons would be just one?
* superkym: and images can be uploaded to the wiki linke the small image of one zone which you can see roughly where to get from that semos village example, or you can cut out a bigger image from the atlan of you want a bigger area
* superkym: I think I would suggest that the Semos area page has details of the city, the village, the dungeons and maybe the plains around it
* superkym: what do you think hendrik?
* kezman: upload and download? also?
* hendrik: superkym, yes.
* kezman: :D
* hendrik: Perhaps we can even add the concept of "regions" to the world in the future.
* Oslsachem: hendrik what would be the concept of regions?
* blackfinix: i wish i had an apple now ;)
* hendrik: Oslsachem, 0_semos_village_w, 0_semos_city, 0_semos_plains_n are all part of "Semos Area".
* superkym: so are -1_semos_dungeons
* hendrik: they have one common theme.
* yoriy: as well as int_semos_bank int_semos_townhall...
* hendrik: Semos is a rural area.
* hendrik: for low level players.
* Oslsachem: so, how would that be reflected in game in the future?
* hendrik: The first step would be to add it below the zone name.
* superkym: it already is reflected in game with the naming conventions, at least
* hendrik: and it may be a good idea to have one topic in each area.
* hendrik: Like Semos is a rural town. Nalwor Forest (which includes the city) is the elfish area.
* hendrik: Orril is the spuky castle area.
* hendrik: and so on.
* blackfinix: yes
* porl: when can we do a raid?
* hendrik: Perhaps we can even group them losely by player level.
* superkym: porl, this meeting is about contributions to the game and the topic we are currently on is how people can help with the wiki
* hendrik: so as a low level player you are best in Semos Area.
* superkym: hendrik, isn't what you said all already true?
* plassy: it starts to lagg when i begin to attak. if i don't attak it wont slow down
* hendrik: if you get stronger, you move on to xxxx. And then to yyyy.
* blackfinix: hendrik you mean like green, yellow, red for danger levels? (or 1,2,3)
* hendrik: This is no strict rule. Just a rule of thumb.
* superkym: as a rule we stick to keeping the semos areas safer, not putting crazy creatures there, nalwor is indeed the elvish area, and so on
* hendrik: blackfinix that is a good idea, too.
* superkym: i'm not sure what you're suggesting should be different
* hendrik: superkym, We know that. But new players don't.
* superkym: and we already have the idea that the further you go from semos city the less safe it is
* hendrik: Currently the main way to identify your position in the world is the zone name.
* hendrik: something like int_semos_townhall, 0_semos_village_w.
* hendrik: those names are there for technical reasons.
* hendrik: I guess we still need them. But I would like to have some in-game names. Not on a per zone basis.
* yoriy: we can probably have aliases for zones
* hendrik: yoriy, I am suggesting that we identify regions. For in game reasons.
* plassy: yes this "technical" names should not be visible to the players
* hendrik: zone are something that is there for technical reasons.
* hendrik: a "region" is usally something that spawns multiple zones.
* hendrik: for example: Ados citiy is so huge that it has multiple zones.
* yoriy: what if show to player something like "You are inside Semos city bank"
* hendrik: But from a players point of view that is Ados city.
* hendrik: We probably should use the current zone names as subtitle.
* Oslsachem: the fact is that zones are artificial divisions due to underlying technical requirements and not natural frontiers... :)
* hendrik: speaking of sub titles, would it be possible to display some transparent text on region changes?
* hendrik: That is similar to the "welcome sign" idea from earlier.
* plassy: it where nice if you cold locate someone. like having a map and giving the coordinates to it
* superkym: hendrik, transparent text?
* Oslsachem: it would be perhaps more useful to have a compass to get there...
* plassy: and then it shows the position of the coordinates on the map
* superkym: there are two types os area messages at the moment: zone entry messages which you only get the very first time you ever enter that zone
* hendrik: we currently don't have a map in game because it uses to much memory to display it.
* hendrik: But we may be able to create multiple maps. One per region.
* superkym: and messaging areas which can be sub-area-s of a whole zone, where you get a message when you enter an area, every time
* hendrik: Those would be a lot smaller.
* superkym: but what did you mean by transparent text?
* plassy: it dont have to be detailed! just a little picture
* porl: there should be a minimap wich we could open up, put a target where we want to go, and it would show the directions (like a gps)
* superkym: you mean like the map of ados city?
* Oslsachem: and because there aren't universal coordinates but patch based coordinates, I think... :/
* superkym: that julius gives out?
* hendrik: superkym, i am thinking of a mixture of those. A message you get every time when you go from say Orril to Nalwor.
* superkym: oslsachem, there are universal coordinates
* hendrik: But without the white background so that it is not annoying.
* superkym: i dont 'think that would be very visible hendrik
* superkym: but the messaging area text, the one you get every time, is less annoying because it doesn't pop up
* hendrik: Oslsachem, we do have a global coordinate system for all maps, except those starting with "int_".
* superkym: you only see it in the chat log like the /me action
* superkym shows, like this
* hendrik: superkym, oh, that is good, yes.
* superkym: hendrik i can show you such an area later if you like
* hendrik: yes, please.


== Client Performance ==
== Multi layered Atlas image (need summary) ==


* There had some performance problems in the drawing code of the client in the past which we think we fixed in 0.79
* hendrik: Does someone know how to work with multi layer images?
* If anyone still has problems like the chat bar not reacting to newly typed letters quickly enough, please contact /support and try to include information about your operating system and java version.
* hendrik: I am asking because of the Atlas.
* We have three clients for you to test if you are still suffering client side lag. They use different ways to synchronize the drawing with the reset of the game.
* plassy: what do you mean?
* On some systems, the client gets a lot faster when starting it with java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true -jar stendhal-0.79.jar
* tigertoes: it was closed
* Adding -Xmx200m may help, too.
* hendrik: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=StendhalAtlas
* tigertoes: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1815905&group_id=1111&atid=101111
* plassy: multilayer... like photoshop?
* superkym: or GIMP, which is free and open source
* hendrik: We can easily generate the world map because there is a script for that.
* hendrik: But all the yellow information like the dungeon pointers are lost.
* plassy: this image formats are not for games
* superkym: yes plassy, but hendrik is talking about the wiki now
* hendrik: So it would be very cool if those circles could be saved in a way which makes it possible to apply them to the new map image.
* kezvacters: i think JPG is better
* superkym: if the map layer could be saved as one layer with the yellow circles only on another layer
* superkym: then the map ayer can be replaced each time it is updated
* superkym: but the yellow circles layer is not lost
* hendrik: On the wiki page there is a link called: "100% scale map with dungeon entrances: [here] (a little outdated) "
* superkym: and then it can be exported to png for display on the wiki
* plassy: what's with 2 png with transparency?
* hendrik: plassy, sounds like a good idea. But how do you know where to draw the circles?
* tigertoes: so, hendrik, you wish a multi layerd png of all the levels ingame?
* hendrik: tigertoes, no.
* tigertoes: ok
* hendrik: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/421/worlddungeonsdy8.png
* yoriy: maybe even animated images which will shows first layer then second and vice versa
* superkym: tigertoes i explained what i think hendrik meant
* hendrik: There are yellow circles.
* tigertoes: sorry, was looking at bugs
* hendrik: The problem is this: The map is version 0.62 (or so).
* superkym: one layer for the map image which changes, one layer for the yellow circles alone
* porl: did anyone ever play grand theft auto?? in gta you can open a map, and put a target on it, then you just follow the target and get to the place, we could do that here
* hendrik: so if there was a way to apply the yellow circles to a new version of the map without starting from scratch that would save a lot of work.
* superkym: porl you can already do that on the minimap
* plassy: but you know the positions of the areas you want to mark, or not?
* porl: what minimap
* tigertoes: ok, i can do that kym
* superkym: the small red map of the zone
* miasma: where's the fun, porl? i think its more cool if you have a journey where you must search the target
* hendrik: tigertoes, thank you.
* porl: yea, but in gta u can put it in any zone
* tigertoes: yep
* superkym: can you use gimp please rather than a photoshop format
* porl: you can put in from here to nalwor for example
* superkym: and upload the xcf as a media file to the wiki so that anyone can update it later too, since the idea is something that is easier to maintain
* hendrik: porl there are scrolls for that.
* hendrik: xcf?
* plassy: gimp
* superkym: xcf is the gimp multilayer format
* superkym: that is what you wanted isn't it hendrik?
* hendrik: oh, good.
* plassy: can anyone explain the circle problem to me again... i dont get it sorry?
* superkym: ok
* hendrik: yes.
* porl: but marked scrolls cost 2000!!
* superkym: nalwor scrolls cost 400
* hendrik: prol there are city scrolls.
* porl: fine
* hendrik: plassy, please have a look at http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/421/worlddungeonsdy8.png
* plassy: yes
* hendrik: We can easily generate the plain map.
* plassy: ok
* hendrik: But then there are no yellow circles anymore.
* plassy: and?
* hendrik: So the idea is to apply the yellow circles to the new plain map file.
* plassy: yes
* hendrik: currently this is done by someone spending two hours or so drawing them again.
* plassy: lol
* superkym: which is why it hasn't been done since 0.62 :P
* hendrik: but we are lazy. So this file gets outdated. Hey, we are at 0.79, and that file is 0.62.
* miasma: think that's not the problem to draw some circles on an actually map
* hendrik: With a multi layer file, we can just tell gimp to do that work for us.
* superkym: luckily there was an easy solution
* superkym: and tigertoes has agreed to create the multilayered file
* plassy: if you can generate the map and you know where the locations are positioned, then you can calculate the circle positions
* hendrik: another thing that can be done with the multi layer images is to draw the region borders in there.


== Training (need summary) ==
== Random ==
* Oslsachem: heder suggests to make it easier to level up skills
* love_puppet: like a training room?


* there have been suggestions for a place for level 400 players
* plassy: i'll go too. i will have a look at the java sound api in the next week
* it was suggested to only mark player killers if they kill multiple players
* training (camping), however, should not be without risk
* create apple juice out of apples with the help of a food mill
* being able to throw apples at annoying players
* apple schnapps, perhaps acting like poison to make it more difficult to walk when drunk
* it was suggested that mithril boots may have to low def

Latest revision as of 03:44, 1 March 2010


Mixed Things

  • /ignore currently only works for /tell but it should work for public chat, too - this is being worked on (#2872361)
  • "Strongest player" on website should be sorted by karma as second sort criterion because of the max level limit (#2905264).
  • It was suggested that animal masks from Fidorea in ados could stay longer than 2 hours, for example for 2 days. Perhaps with additional fees.
  • blackfinix offered to update the StendhalManual and embed the referenced images by uploading them to the Wiki (#2892214 fixed by kiheru and kymara).
  • Enabled and minimized keyring pops up on every zone change (#1815905 fixed)
  • It was requested to have an npc to sell armors to which you can not sell to other npcs
  • The black pearl image could be improved (done; a new image in CVS now)
  • An NPC for offering items to other players in being worked on

Mute

  • /mute should to be remembered across restarts (#2880973 fixed).
  • the command could be more user friendly: /mute instead of the confusing "/sound mute on" and "/sound mute off" (#2905154 fixed).

Size of bag

  • The bag is always too small.
  • It may be a good idea to let players earn the right to get more storage, like the keyring.
  • There is some work in progress on boxes and backpacks and so on

Poison

  • Poisoning creatures are disliked by some players
    • well, that is the idea behind them
    • fit well into the world
  • There should be poison arrows and weapons
    • currently only players can be poisoned, needs some moving of code blocks
    • those weapons should be created by the adventurers by applying poison to them (#1591445)
  • there should be special antidotes for stronger poison

Stackable item handling

  • ctrl+drag does not work if you take the item from a chest
  • there should be the reverse of /drop 2 items to take 2 items from the chest
  • even better a menu for that which pops up on ctrl drag

Quest Contribution

  • Stendhal Quest Contribution explains how a quest is created. Starting with a very first rough idea and ending with an implemented and well tested quest that is fun to play.
  • There are already some ideas at Stendhal Quest Ideas in various states of completion.
  • It is a good idea to join #arianne and talk about your ideas, especially before you start to put lots of work into it.

Quest Log

  • We want a quest log that records the progress of quests (#1716575).
  • For example something like this: Helping Tad
    • I have met Tad in Semos Townhall
    • He asked me to buy a flask from Margaret in Semos Tavern.
    • I got a flask and will bring it to Tad soon.
    • Tad asked me to take the flask to Ilisa at Semos Temple.
    • Ilisa asked me to get a herb called Arandula which I can find north of Semos, near the tree grove.
    • Ilisa created a powerful potion to help Tad. She asked me to tell him that it is ready.
    • Tad thanked me.


  • This feature is in development and already works partly: /listquests IntroducePlayers
  • Starting with 0.80 /listquests without parameter will give you a list of all quests known to you
  • Warning: On 0.79 /listquests without parameters might create such a long reply that the client crashes


  • There should be a dialogue window in the long run
    • One part showing the list of known quests
    • The other part shows the log for the selected one
    • Window should be outside the world not like the bag, but like the minimap or the help window
  • The log itself is something that everyone that knew the quests can help with. Even without knowing anything about coding computer programs.
    • blackfinix and humana volunteered to write some of the required texts. More volunteers are very welcomed.
    • The wiki page about quests may help because it often advises on the different states of the quests
    • The work that has already been done can be seen at quests.xml (right click on this link to download)

City Welcome Messages

  • there could be a welcome message when you reach a city for the first time: Welcome in Fado
  • perhaps this could appear when you reach other areas for the first time
  • those text boxed may guide you
  • or there may be a in world sign near the city entrance which points to the important locations

Training

  • We still need to teach that it's now not necessary to train, with the new RP - that gaining xp improves your abilities faster
  • Training is still allowed, and it has its advantages, but it's risky
  • Ideas were suggested to make training 'easier' like:
  • a training dagger which does a limited damage of 1 point per hit no matter the player's level and which gets used up when the player gets 1 point in both attack and defense experience. And the price is proportional to the player' level
  • weapons with rate less than 1 (it was explained that rate 1 means one hit per 1 turn, so it's not possible to go faster - it was claimed that in some other servers this is possible)
  • It would be good if there was a way to train by being active in game. The old camping system of gaining level by not playing but just being logged in is not good.
  • if you train you have to answer question of a quiz (jokey suggestion)
  • after a certain number of hits you have to reselect to attack your partner so it is less 'hands off'
  • Some players train to be able to cope better alone, e.g. in deathmatch

Item availability

  • It was requested that the very rare items like demon fire sword and soul dagger become less rare
  • The best items are rare because it makes the game interesting and balanced
  • Mithril armor was enquired about - the quest is still in development
  • Mithril blade was mentioned but it is only an idea now
  • It was suggested that new players should be able get some very good items with quests - again this would be unbalanced
  • Amulets were mentioned but without any suggestion of what purpose they would have

Client Performance

  • There had some performance problems in the drawing code of the client in the past which we think we fixed in 0.79
  • If anyone still has problems like the chat bar not reacting to newly typed letters quickly enough, please contact /support and try to include information about your operating system and java version.
  • We have three clients for you to test if you are still suffering client side lag. They use different ways to synchronize the drawing with the reset of the game.
  • On some systems, the client gets a lot faster when starting it with java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true -jar stendhal-0.79.jar
  • Adding -Xmx200m may help, too.

Random

  • there have been suggestions for a place for level 400 players
  • it was suggested to only mark player killers if they kill multiple players
  • training (camping), however, should not be without risk
  • create apple juice out of apples with the help of a food mill
  • being able to throw apples at annoying players
  • apple schnapps, perhaps acting like poison to make it more difficult to walk when drunk
  • it was suggested that mithril boots may have to low def
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