Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22/Result Log/Music: Difference between revisions

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* humana: hey... I want more sound in this game, maybe music!... I thought about a new house... for example a jazz house... there are some musicians (is that the right word) which are playing music... you can do there for example a new quest too ... how do you think about this?

* humana: maybe first just one place for music ... it's difficult to write songs for all places in stendhal...

* hendrik: And too many other things to work on.

* vomit: there's a text in the wiki about this

* humana: what kind of music?

* humana: I can do maybe something with cheatdomi

* vomit: chilling tunes

* humana: I like it if there is a jazz house!

* storyteller: humana, I already produced a four music tracks for Stendhal :)

* vomit: maybe ambient or classic with a touch of medieval tunes

* humana: it's difficult to write something for all places vomit

* humana: you want for dungeons for example other music

* humana: storyteller? where can I hear this music?

* storyteller: it is added to the patches tracker

* storyteller: it´s something for ambient/atmosphere

* miasma: we could take midi-files.

* superkym: storyteller's music is really good. but adding to the game it is another thing

* vomit: in the wiki stood something about ogg

* storyteller: I produced it myself

* vomit: would flac do it either?

* humana: okay teller I will hear it

* humana: kymi? what do you mean?

* superkym: pepsz, you can write this already

* vomit: i have one ambienttrack but it's in mp3

* plassy: maybe we can find some music at jamendo.com... it's creative common

* miasma: midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home

* humana: I like some music for your heart

* humana: like blues and jazz

* blackfinix: convert it to ogg

* blackfinix: ogg is open source

* storyteller: no, I think we should not take music from anywhere...

* blackfinix: flac is open source

* humana: storryteller what do you mean?

* plassy: what do you mean with anywhere?

* kiheru: with flac we would get rather large download sizes

* miasma: i'm for midi-files.

* storyteller: well, to take it from any other source... Because of the copyright etc

* plassy: its a game

* vomit: flac would just be the source

* humana: porl there are guys who want music and guys which say it is not important

* superkym: i'm pretty sure the wiki says what specifications we have, doesn't it say oggs?

* humana: yes and a game has a background music

* humana: you can mute the music

* vomit: you could downsample it then for your own desired size

* pepsz: more for example the people how you ignore can see why you ignore hem when try speak with you

* Oslsachem: music usually adds atmosphere to the game but not gameplay

* blackfinix: a midi composition would work miasma. but im not sure if he game can handle them

* humana: so I don't know now... what do you think about a Blues or Jazz house?

* plassy: midi and linux istnt a good idea

* humana: midi...

* blackfinix: if it was midi it would definitely have a retro sound to the game :)

* yoriy: what about next ideas

* Oslsachem: porl, the problem of levelling undefinedly is that if creature don't level together with you, you end up without challenges.

* vomit: i think it should be ogg

* storyteller: do you think about 8-bit music?

* matheus: open

* Oslsachem: undefinitely

* blackfinix: yes ogg is best bet

* storyteller: retro style? ;)

* vomit: and there should be a soundtrack file, which you are able to download extra

* plassy: full ack to ogg

* miasma: i think a retro touch like lufia or secret of mana or sth. is not bad for a game like these

* blackfinix: vomit yes ... like the sound files now

* storyteller: thats right miasma

* vomit: yes

* blackfinix: yes

* superkym: adding music woudl still be rather a major change

* vomit: but midis are tooooo oldschool

* sentinel: missing a shop for armors

* blackfinix: ok we can put that off for now, or create a ccommittee to look into it

* humana: who wrote music for stendhal already?

* superkym: it's not a minor thing which we can just make happen, it's a major thing needed, as far as i remember

* vomit: atmospheric sounds in ogg would be better

* miasma: but not your ambient music, vomit. i think ulthar isn't a good choice. in dreamscape maybe ;)

* Oslsachem: music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value.

* plassy: whats the problem with music... there is support for sounfd in java... or im wrong?

* samson: I don't care about music / sounds as long as I can switch them off

* blackfinix: yes samson.

* plassy: so who did the original sound stuff?

== Triggering Background Music ==

* Oslsachem: there's the question whether music should be played individually for each player or whether it should be associated with the zone...

* hendrik: There should be different music for cities, forest, dungeons.

* hendrik: So it would be zone depended.

* hendrik: We already have some wind like sounds in 0_semos_village_w, but that is very basic.

* plassy: music have to add atmosphere

* superkym: yes and storyteller's music are great examples of this

* storyteller: Thanks very much :)

* superkym: some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow

* superkym: some are dark and scary like for a dungeon

* Oslsachem: but that means that when a player enters a zone the music is not played from the beginning

* superkym: also he made them fairly small file which is important as we don't want to force large downloads, and they loop, too.

* yoriy: if music stay zone dependent it must not be monotonic , so probably there must be 2-3 misic themes for each zones

* blackfinix: osl that wouuld be ok though?

* hendrik: There is this problem:

* hendrik: Player One enters the zone.

* hendrik: The music starts.

* hendrik: 30 second later player Two enters the zone.

* storyteller: Then the music has to be played for every single player

* hendrik: Will he hear the music from the start? Or will it start with 30 seconds into the track?

* tigertoes: if it is a loop, wouldnt that mean it doesnt matter?

* vomit: the music should play for each player

* tigertoes: same concept for when you have music on telephone and they put you on hold

* storyteller: yes, tigertoes... for loops it doesnt matter

* love_puppet: or maybe the player 2 picks up 30s in to the track

* vomit: that should be controlled locally by the client

* plassy: the music should fade in... there is no need to hear it from the start

* hendrik: Always starting at the beginning of the file is a lot easier to code.

* plassy: except if special events arise

* yoriy: id like to have music in client instead server

* plassy: hendrik: i dont see the problem... dosn't java handle this?

* plassy: isn't there any library?

* superkym: why is it a problem if the music starts from the beginning as you enter, for each player? i think that is ok

* jesco: yes it is

* hendrik: okay, that makes things easier.

* Oslsachem: there's an unofficial rule that states that all the players should see the same things in the game though I don't know if music is really a part of the world or just the game interface because there isn't actually a musician playing it...

* kiheru: java does not handle everything. there's still a lot about the behaviour to code

* blackfinix: wouldn't all this music be very resource hungry?

== Multi Account Playing ==

* humana: kymi? what is if you play with 2 accounts?

* humana: you have to mute one?

* humana: otherwise maybe it sounds really strange

* hendrik: It may be a good idea to only play the music if the client is the active window.

* kiheru: you'd mute the music of one, unless you want a cacophony

* superkym: well they may not even be in the same zone humana... yes i guess you would choose to mute one or hendrik's idea

* blackfinix: but that would be the players problem if he/she choses to play more than one char

== Shipping Music Files ==

* superkym: blackfinix the music itself would be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are

* superkym: so it does not need to be sent over the network from the server. just the instruction to start playing, stop playing

* kiheru: as a separate package, I'd prefer

* blackfinix: ok

* storyteller: yes, kym, that would be best

* tigertoes: i agree to the separate package... if someone wants music, they can download it separately

* superkym: or a FULL client and a clien twithout sounds

* Oslsachem: for all the players to listen to the music synchronously, it should be streamed from the server and not stored in the client I guess...

* superkym: like we already have

* plassy: no... no stream

* superkym: Oslsachem i'm really not sure that's necessary

* kiheru: no reason to stream. waste of bandwidht

* hendrik: kiheru, i suggest these steps: 1. Make mute persitent, 2. include the sound files in stendhal-0..., 3. include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0...

* blackfinix: streaming would really eat the bandwidth

* storyteller: yes, that´s true

* miasma: jep.

* kiheru: just have a "atmosphere" property for the zones that's send to the client

* superkym: if you really wanted to make it start at the correct place you'd send what moment in teh tarck to start from

* superkym: but not stream

* superkym: * track

* plassy: yes

* storyteller: yes

* hendrik: does someone volunteer?

* blackfinix: ok

* superkym: btw osl you're outside my window. can you come to the table?

* hendrik: I will fix the /mute thingy.

* taron: Ronaldo!!!

* superkym: thanks, hendrik

* storyteller: volunteer for what? ;)

* humana: oslachem?

* blackfinix: to lead the music commitee?

* hendrik: for creating music files, for writing to code to use them.

* kiheru: cI donburied under all my tasks already :-(

* storyteller: I´ll produce the music :)

* miasma: what about the animal masks in ados? why do they just stay 2 hours? i think the time should be altered for 2 days too

* humana: good job tigger

* tigertoes: :)

* hendrik: I think it may be a good idea to just start with two small midi files for testing, not putting to much time into it until the code works.

* Maria: humana, if you want my attention, just say hi.

* hendrik: if "midi" is the way to go.

* plassy: maybi i can help with the music programming

* storyteller: okay, btw converting to ogg isn´t a problem ;)

* superkym: plassy, that would be good

* miasma: i could try to make midi-files. thanks to guitar pro :D

* hendrik: plassy, cool.

* storyteller: ^^

* plassy: i only have to look a bit in the java docs

* hendrik: miasma, thank you.

* tigertoes: i dont think you can get the range in midi files as you can in ogg

* kiheru: the code is the critical part for now, so help for that is very welcome :-)

* storyteller: Okay, Miasma and I do the music :)

* hendrik: plassy, it may be a good idea to join [http://stendhal.game-host.org/?id=content/game/chat #arianne] on irc freenode. Please ask there if you have any questions or need some pointing around the Stendhal source code.

* Oslsachem: you could play with the music tempo, increasing it when a player has low health

* storyteller: good idea

* humana: so if you want some music for some maps... I am here, I have guitar pro .. and domi have a better programm

* miasma: like the time-out music in super mario, oslsachem? ;)

* kiheru: maybe eventually osl. first we need something that works

* humana: good Idea oslachem

* storyteller: yes, miasma :D

* Oslsachem: I guess so, miasma :)

* storyteller: that would be great ^^

* plassy: i'll go too. i will have a look at the java sound api in the next week