Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22/Result Log/Music: Difference between revisions

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Line 1: {{Navigation for Stendhal Top\|Developing}} {{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}} {{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}} __TOC__ * there's a text on sound and music at [[Stendhal Sound]] * storyteller: but what if there is for example music added some time? Then you need "/sound mute on" and "/music mute on" * wiki page is quite old and needs to be updated * humana: hey... I want more sound in this game, maybe music!... I thought about a new house... for example a jazz house... there are some musicians (is that the right word) which are playing music... you can do there for example a new quest too ... how do you think about this? {{clear}} * humana: maybe first just one place for music ... it's difficult to write songs for all places in stendhal... == Types of Music == * vomit: humana u can compose music for the game and sent it to the developers * hendrik: And too many other things to work on. * vomit: there's a text in the wiki about this * humana: what kind of music? * plassy: you have to get the music from anywhere... * humana: I can do maybe something with cheatdomi * vomit: chilling tunes * humana: I like it if there is a jazz house! * storyteller: humana, I already produced a four music tracks for Stendhal :) * vomit: maybe ambient * vomit: or classic with a touch of medieval tunes * humana: it's difficult to write something for all places vomit * humana: you want for dungeons for example other music * humana: storyteller? where can I hear this music? * vomit: i allways think about the soundtrack of "elder scrolls" * storyteller: it is added to the patches tracker * hendrik: Please keep in mind that this is a free game. Which means that any music needs to be free and "with source". So an mp3 is not good. * yoriy: its me who want it, osl * storyteller: it´s something for ambiet/atmosphere * miasma: we could take midi-files. * superkym: storyteller's music is really good. but adding to the game it is another thing * vomit: in the wiki stood something about ogg * storyteller: I produced it myself * pepsz: i thnk when you ignore somebody you can write the motive for example /ignore pepzs (motive) * porl: it will suck whan im 597 * vomit: would flac do it either? * humana: okay teller I will hear it * blackfinix: hmm ambient music is not hard to compose :) .... or even automated music ... * humana: kymi? what do you mean? * superkym: pepsz, you can write this already * porl: hi * love_puppet: you have a vary long time befor u get that far * vomit: i have one ambienttrack * love_puppet: like long * vomit: but it's in mp3 * plassy: maybe we can find some music at jamendo.com... ist creative common * miasma: midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home * humana: I like some music for your heart * humana: like blues and jazz * blackfinix: convert it to ogg * pepsz: wow i dont know these =S * superkym: pepsz please type /help and you will see what to do to add the reason. and when you type /ignore alone, you see who you have ignored and for what reason * blackfinix: ogg is open source * porl: please * porl: make no max lvl * storyteller: no, I think we should not take music from anywhere... * vomit: would flac do it, too? * blackfinix: yes flac is open source * humana: storryteller what do you mean? * porl: if someone wants muc«sic, get itunes, and hear it! * plassy: what do you mean with anywhere? * kiheru: with flac we would get rather large download sizes * miasma: i'm for midi-files. * storyteller: well, to take it from any other source... Because of the copyright etc * plassy: its a game * vomit: flac would just be the source * humana: porl there are guys who want music and guys which say it is not important * porl: get itunes * superkym: i'm pretty sure the wiki says what specifications we have, doesn't it say oggs? * porl: im hearing music right now * humana: yes and a game has a background music * humana: you can mute the music * vomit: you could downsample it then for your own desired size * pepsz: more for example the people how you ignore can see why you ignore hem when try speak with you * porl: no max lvl * Oslsachem: music usually adds atmosphere to the game but not gameplay * blackfinix: a midi composition would work miasma. but im not sure if he game can handle them * humana: so I don't know now... what do you think about a Blues or Jazz house? * plassy: midi and linux istnt a good idea * humana: midi... * blackfinix: if it was midi it would definitely have a retro sound to the game :) * yoriy: what about next ideas * Oslsachem: porl, the problem of levelling undefinedly is that if creature don't level together with you, you end up without challenges. * vomit: i think it should be ogg * sentinel: 7who * storyteller: do you think about 8-bit music? * matheus: open * Oslsachem: undefinitely * blackfinix: yes ogg is best bet * storyteller: retro style? ;) * vomit: and there should be a soundtrack file, which you are able to download extra * kezman: hi all * plassy: full ack to ogg * miasma: i think a retro touch like lufia or secret of mana or sth. is not bad for a game like these * blackfinix: vomit yes ... like the sound files now * storyteller: thats right miasma * vomit: yes * blackfinix: yes * superkym: adding music woudl still be rather a major change * vomit: but midis are tooooo oldschool * sentinel: missing a shop for armors * blackfinix: ok we can put that off for now, or create a ccommittee to look into it * humana: who wrote music for stendhal already? * superkym: it's not a minor thing which we can just make happen, it's a major thing needed, as far as i remember * vomit: atmospheric sounds in ogg would be better * miasma: but not your ambient music, vomit. i think ulthar isn't a good choice. in dreamscape maybe ;) * Oslsachem: music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value. * plassy: whats the problem with music... there is support for sounfd in java... or im wrong? * main goal of music is to add ambient/atmosphere * samson: I don't care about music / sounds as long as I can switch them off * music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value. * blackfinix: yes samson. ** storyteller made some great examples of this, see patch tracker * plassy: so who did the original sound stuff? ** some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow * Oslsachem: there's the question wether music should be played individually for each player or wether it should be associated with the zone... ** some are dark and scary like for a dungeon * hendrik: There should be different music for cities, forrest, dungeons. ** a jazz room was suggested, does it fit into the world? * hendrik: So it would be zone depended. * need to compromise between file size and loops being long enough not to get monotonic * plassy: music have to add atmosphere * files provided and [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/music/ committed to CVS] * superkym: yes and storyteller's music are great examples of this ** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Deep_Forest.ogg Deep_Forest.ogg] (This music by storyteller from patch 2665588 is ideal for outdoors as it has bir..., 2009) * hendrik: We already have some wind like sounds in 0_semos_village_w, but that is very basic. ** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Demiurgo_ANewHomeland.ogg Demiurgo_ANewHomeland.ogg] (Added final version of demiurgos song, 2006 ) * storyteller: Thanks very much :) ** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Sacred_Moments.ogg Sacred_Moments.ogg] (This piece of music by storyteller from patch 2672345 has a majestic and serious..., 2009) * superkym: some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow ** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/music/The_Forsaken_Mine.ogg The_Forsaken_Mine.ogg] (This is written by storyteller, atmospheric background music ideal for caves or ..., 2009) * superkym: some are dark and scary like for a dungeon ** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/checkout/arianne/stendhal/data/music/The_Old_Tavern.ogg The_Old_Tavern.ogg] (This is written by storyteller, and he comments that ' This background soundtrac..., 2009) * Oslsachem: but that means that when a player enters a zone the music is not played from the beginning * superkym: also he made them fairly small file which is important as we don't want to force large downloads, and they loop, too. == File Format == * yoriy: if music stay zone dependent it must not be monotonic , so probably there must be 2-3 misic themes for each zones * blackfinix: osl that wouuld be ok though? * mp3 is problematic * hendrik: There is this problem: * midi * storyteller: hmm... ** midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home * hendrik: Player One enters the zone. ** midi and linux may be a problem * hendrik: The music starts. ** midi would have a retro touch, like lufia or secret of mana or sth. * hendrik: 30 second later player Two enters the zone. * ogg * blackfinix: oh i see ... yes ** midi files can be converted * storyteller: Then the music has to be played for every single player ** prefered by many people * hendrik: Will he hear the music from the start? Or will it start with 30 seconds into the track? ** cannot get the range in midi files as you can in ogg * tigertoes: if it is a loop, wouldnt that mean it doesnt matter? * vomit: the music should play for each player == Controlling the music == * tigertoes: same concept for when you have music on telephone and they put you on hold * storyteller: yes, tigertoes... for loops it doesnt matter * music is played by client * love_puppet: or mabey the player 2 picks up 30s in to the track * ~~vomit:~~on ~~that~~commands ~~should be controled locally~~provided by the ~~client~~server * ~~plassy: the~~ music should ~~fade~~depended ~~in...~~on ~~ther~~zone, is"atmosphere" noproperty ~~need~~of tozone ~~hear~~that itis ~~from~~sent ~~the~~to ~~start~~client * synchronization * hendrik: Always starting at the beginning of the file is a lot easier to code. ** there is an unwritten rule that all the players should see the same thing * plassy: except if special events arise ** problem: player A enters a zone, the music starts to play, player B enters 30 seconds later. For them to hear the same thing the music for player B has to start 30 seconds in * yoriy: id like to have music in client ** the music should fade in, there is no need to hear it from the start * yoriy: instead server ** music is not really part of the game world so it may be okay to start at the beginning every time, to make coding simpler for now * plassy: hendrik: i dont see the problem... dosn't java handle this? * other triggers * plassy: isn't there any library? ** there might be special music during a fight against a very strong monsters * superkym: why is it a problem if the music starts from the beginning as you enter, for each player? i think that is ok ** it was suggested that music may be faster when low on health * jesco: yes it is * hendrik: okay, that makes things easier. == Multiple programs with music == * kiheru: java does not handle everything. there's still a lot about the behaviour to code * blackfinix: wouldn't all this music be very resource hungry? * music should only be played if the Stendhal client is the active window * humana: kymi? what is if you play with 2 accounts? * so when you have two clients open (for example while testing) you don't get a mess * humana: you have to mute one? * a workaround would be to mute one client manually. * Oslsachem: there's an unofficial rule that states that all the players should see the same things in the game though I don't know if music is really a part of the world or just the game interface because there isn't actually a musician playing it... * for example when the other music source is not related to Stendhal * humana: otherwise maybe it sounds really * humana: strange == Shipping Music Files == * hendrik: It may be a good idea to only play the music if the client is the active window. * kiheru: you'd mute the music of one, unless you want a cacophony * the music files should be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are, but as a separate package * superkym: well they may not even be in the same zone humana... yes i guess you would choose to mute one * streaming is considered to consume too much resources like bandwidth, streaming is not required for synchronizing * superkym: or hendrik's idea * plan: * blackfinix: but that would be the players problem if he/she choses to play more than one char # Make /mute persistent ({{tracker\|2880973}}). humana: yes # include the sound files in stendhal-0.xx.zip (it made sense to have an extra download years ago when the music was twice as large as the client, but that is not true anymore) superkym: blackfinix the music itself would be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are # include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0.xx.zip blackfinix: ok i see * superkym: so it does not need to be sent over the network from the server. just the instruction to start playing, stop playing == Other == * kiheru: as a separate packege, I'd prefer * blackfinix: ok * we need to be carefully when taking music from any other sources because they may be copyrighted although marked as free * storyteller: yes, kym, that would be best * it should be possible to switch sound/music off * tigertoes: i agree to the separate package... if someone wants music, they can download it separately * music needs quite a bit of coding, the existing sound system needs some cleanup * superkym: or a FULL client and a clien twithout sounds * there are ogg files provided to test with, so the missing computer code is the show stopper * Oslsachem: for all the players to listen to the music synchronously, it should be streamed from the server and not stored in the client I guess... * superkym: like we already have == Volunteers == * plassy: no... no stream * superkym: Oslsachem i'm really not sure that's necessary * storyteller and miasma volunteered to do the music * kiheru: no reason to stream. waste of bandwidht * hendrik: ~~kiheru,~~volunteered ito ~~suggest these steps: 1. Make~~fix /mute ~~persitent, 2.~~and include the sound files ininto the normal stendhal-0.xx..zip download, 3.so ~~include~~that the music files incan go into stendhal-FULL-0.xx..zip * plassy volunteered to do the java coding * blackfinix: streaming would really eat the bandwidth * it may be a good idea to join [http://stendhal.game-host.org/?id=content/game/chat #arianne] on irc freenode. Please ask there if you have any questions or issues. * storyteller: yes, that´s true * miasma: jep. * kiheru: just have a "atmosphere" property for the zones that's send to the client * superkym: if you really wanted to make it start at the correct place you'd send what moment in teh tarck to start from * superkym: but not stream * superkym: * track * plassy: yes * storyteller: yes * hendrik: does someone volunteer? * blackfinix: ok * superkym: btw osl you're outside my window. can you come to the table? * hendrik: I will fix the /mute thingy. * taron: Ronaldo!!! * superkym: thanks, hendrik * storyteller: volunteer for what? ;) * humana: oslachem? * blackfinix: to lead the music commitee? * hendrik: for creating music files, for writing to code to use them. * kiheru: cI donburied under all my tasks already :-( * storyteller: I´ll produce the music :) * miasma: what about the animal masks in ados? why do they just stay 2 hours? i think the time should be altered for 2 days too * humana: good job tigger * tigertoes: :) * hendrik: I think it may be a good idea to just start with two small midi files for testing, not putting to much time into it until the code works. * Maria: humana, if you want my attention, just say hi. * hendrik: if "midi" is the way to go. * plassy: maybi i can help with the music programming * storyteller: okay, btw converting to ogg isn´t a problem ;) * superkym: plassy, that would be good * miasma: i could try to make midi-files. thanks to guitar pro :D * hendrik: plassy, cool. * storyteller: ^^ * plassy: i only have to look a bit in the java docs * hendrik: miasma, thank you. * tigertoes: i dont think you can get the range in midi files as you can in ogg * kiheru: the code is the critical part for now, so help for that is very welcome :-) * storyteller: Okay, Miasma and I do the music :) * hendrik: plassy, it may be a good idea to join arianne on irc. Pleae ask there if you have any questions or need some points around the Stendhal source code. * Oslsachem: you could play with the music tempo, increasing it when a player has low health * storyteller: good idea * humana: so if you want some music for some maps... Iam here, I have guitar pro .. and domi have a better programm * miasma: like the time-out music in super mario, oslsachem? ;) * kiheru: maybe eventually osl. first we need something that works * humana: good Idea oslachem * storyteller: yes, miasma :D * Oslsachem: I guess so, miasma :) * storyteller: that would be great ^^