Implementing Poison in Stendhal: Difference between revisions

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+{{Navigation for Stendhal Top|Developing}}
 =Pressing Questions=
 * '''Should it stack?'''
 ** As is monsters can stack poison against players. Will this trait be too over powered for players?
-***I believe it won't be overpowered if each weapon can only have one coat of poison on it at any time, and they require an amount of time to apply, similar to skills like fishing or coal mining. Poisons can be treated as a property of an item, similar to atk or def, except as either true/false, 0/1, or yes/no, so poison cannot be added to a weapon that already has it. So new properties could be if the weapon has poison, and what type of poison it is. Combat could check for poison, and then apply the right effect. For instance a weapon with mega poison could have properties like this: Poisoned:1 P_type:5. It could be shown in the description as Poisoned [*****] with five stars.
+***I believe it won't be overpowered if each weapon can only have one coat of poison on it at any time, and they require an amount of time to apply, similar to skills like fishing or mining. Poisons can be treated as a property of an item, either true or false, so poison cannot be added to a weapon that already has it. So new properties could be if the weapon has poison, and what type of poison it is. - Richgar
 ** If we remove the trait is it still fun, and worth the effort for players to use?
-*** Depends on how effective the poison will be with or without the ability to stack. The values of the poison can be modified, since they have no impact in-game right now. I'm concerned about the stacking ability when it comes to arrows. It doesn't seem logical to poison a bow like a melee weapon, so its more logical to poison the arrows. However, poisoning one arrow with a whole bottle doesn't seem reasonable. It would be more logical to poison a bunch of arrows with one bottle, but ranged is already powerful as it is. If many arrows could be poisoned at once, combined with a stacking poison, it could make ranged overpowered. Instead, 2 arrows could be fully coated from tip to tail at a time, and provide the highest chance of inflicting poison. Next would be daggers, then swords, axes, and finally clubs. It would detect the weapon type based on the name of the weapon, "bow", "shuriken", "dagger", "sword" or "blade", "axe" or "scythe", "hammer" or "staff", and use that to determine the chance of inflicting poison.
+*** Poison should be able to stack. The values of the poison can be modified, since they have no impact in-game right now, so we could make it not stack and just increase the damage of poison. Arrows could provide the highest chance of inflicting poison. Next would be daggers, then swords, axes, and finally clubs. It would detect the weapon type based on the name of the weapon, "bow", "shuriken", "dagger", "sword" or "blade", "axe" or "scythe", "hammer" or "staff", and use that to determine the chance of inflicting poison. - Richgar
 ** How long does it last? Will the effect diminish?
+*** Needs testing to find balanced values. The effect shouldn't diminish if it's to be consistent with poisonous creatures. - Richgar
-*** This needs some testing after we decide whether poison should stack. Unless we're talking about a poison revamp that includes changing enemy poison effects, i think poison should behave like the poison of the monster it came from, so it wouldn't diminish. How long it lasts would need some testing for balance, or we could just use the same values as the current poisonous monsters in-game.
 * '''Will the weapon be beyond repair after some time?'''
-** I believe poison should act as a temporary property of an item, and shouldn't affect its durability. A poisoned dagger is just a dagger with poison on it, is how I picture it.
+** I believe poison should act as a on/off property of an item, and shouldn't affect its durability. A poisoned dagger is just a dagger with poison on it, is how I picture it. - Richgar
 * '''Can poison be applied to the weapon right away?'''
-** I believe it should take time to coat a weapon with poison, similar to skills like fishing or mining coal. You would put a bottle of poison in one hand, and the melee weapon, ammunition, or missile in the other. "Applying poison." would show in the chat log, and after maybe 4 or 5 seconds, your weapon will have poison property enabled.
+** I believe it should take time to coat a weapon with poison, similar to skills like fishing or mining coal. You would put a bottle of poison in one hand, and the melee weapon, ammunition, or missile in the other. "You are applying 'poison' to 'weapon'." would show in the chat log, you wait 5 seconds, and "You have applied 'poison' to 'weapon." appears. - Richgar
 ** Do we need special NPCs who can craft such items or lay the effect on them?
+*** I think it would be good for an NPC to be able to take poisons and money and make a stronger refined version for higher level players. - Richgar
-*** I don't think this is a good rpg concept. Since poison mostly comes from monster hunting, I believe its better to give players the ability to poison their own weapons. Similar to the ability to mill your own sugar.
 ** Is just poison as an item needed or does the player have to craft special potions before?
+*** It just feels right that enemies drop poison bottles. They can be less potent, and there could be an assassin NPC who takes multiple bottles and money to craft more potent, useful versions for higher level players. - Richgar
-*** I believe the poison bottles will do just fine. They're extracted from poisonous monsters anyway.
 * '''What prevent players from using poisonous weapons all the time?'''
+** I think there should be a delayed method of applying poison such as with equipping the bottle and weapon in either hand and waiting 5 seconds for it to apply so players can't use it in the middle of combat. - Richgar
-** Nothing but quantity, similar to health potions. Nothing prevents players from consuming too many health potions or antidotes. Similarly, poisons should be one-time use on weapons and be consumed in the same fashion.
 * '''Where does poison fit in with the elements? Fire/Ice, Light/Dark'''
-** I believe that all poisonous or non-mortal enemies will be immune. This includes mostly dark enemies, but also a mix of creatures from the other three elements.
+** I believe that all poisonous or non-mortal enemies will be immune. This includes mostly dark enemies, but also a mix of creatures from the other three elements. - Richgar
 ** Off hand a lot of dark elementals are notable for poison.(dark elves) But, Not sure if we should lump it in with that element.
-***I believe it should depend on the lore of this game whether elves are mortal or not, or have any special racial traits, and therefore have any resistance to poison.
+***I believe it should depend on the lore of this game whether elves are mortal or not, or have any special racial traits, and therefore have any resistance to poison. - Richgar
 * '''Can all creatures be poisoned or do these which for example drop poison or are poisoning be immune?
-**I believe that all poisonous or non-mortal enemies will be immune. Said stuff above.
+**I believe that all poisonous or non-mortal enemies will be immune. Said stuff above. - Richgar
 * '''Can players use poisoned weapons without being hurt/poisoned on their own?
+** No, I don't think there should be a risk to the user. - Richgar
-** Maybe if they used ranged against melee, or if they carried a bunch of antidotes.
 ** New items like gloves needed which protect the player from being poisoned?
+*** I don't think there should be a risk to using poison weapons. - Richgar
-*** I don't think so. Poison is chemical, not physical. If you are inflicted with poison, it doesn't matter how much armor you have. I believe the chance of getting poisoned should include the total health of the defender, and the percentage of the max damage that the attacker could possibly do. So the greater the attack roll, including what type of penetrable weapon the attacker is using, the greater the chance of inflicting poison. The greater the health pool of the enemy, the lower the chance that the inflicted wound will implement poison status. If an attack is blocked or misses, there would be no chance of inflicting poison, so def would have an indirect affect on the chance of getting poisoned.
 *** Will these be worn out after some time?
 * '''Do poisoned creatures react like players? e.g. walking in a different way
-** That would be pretty cool, but many players can adapt quickly to the reversed movement. Creatures should be able to do so as well, for balance purposes.
+** That would be pretty cool, but it would be weird and too easy to kite enemies. I don't find the confusion effect of poison logical. I think it should be a separate status effect. - Richgar
 ==Discussion==
+* We can have an assassin/apothecary NPC who can take two bottles of poison and make an enhanced bottle. You would put a bottle in each hand and then pay the apothecary to mix them. The apothecary would tell you how long it will take before you can retrieve your poison. The formula for calculating poison strength can be
-* I think stabby weapons like daggers and arrows should have a higher chance of inflicting poison, since they penetrate deeper, and then swords and axes, and finally clubs have the lowest chance. To apply the poison, it would be similar to the scroll eraser. You put the poison in one hand, and the weapon in the other. When you attack with the weapon, whether you successfully poison the enemy or not, the poison is used up. Since the poison bottles in the game have no use other than quests... I think their values can be modified a bit to make them more balanced for implementing the use of poison.
+ Amount = a+(b^2)/(a+b), where a is the larger poison amount of the two.
+The frequency and duration would be the same as the stronger poison. Given the amount, frequency, and duration, the regen would be
+ Regen = (Amount*Frequency)/(4*Duration)
+The fee for this service should be more expensive as the poison strength increases. This service would be for higher level players. - Richgar
+* Fast stabby weapons like daggers and arrows should have the highest chance of inflicting poison. Then swords and axes. Clubs should have a low chance. To apply the poison, it would be similar to the scroll eraser. You put the poison in one hand, and the weapon in the other, and wait 5 seconds for the poison to apply. The poison can last for a set duration after being applied, or it could last for a set amount of attacks. Since poison bottles in the game have no use other than quests... the values can be modified to make them more balanced for implementing the use of poison. - Richgar
-* There should probably be changes to the current values of each poison for them to be implemented into the game, for balance reasons. The current values of each poison, regen/total damage/frequency are:
+* The current values of each poison should be balanced for them to be implemented into the game. The current values of each poison are:
 {| class="wikitable sortable" style="vertical-align: top"
-! poison!! Regen!! TotalAmount!! Frequency
+! poison!! Regen!! Amount!! Frequency
 |-
-|| regular || -2 || 40 || 30
+|| regular || -2 || -40 || 30
 |-
 || greater || -3 || -60 || 15
@@ Line 50: / Line 58: @@
 || disease|| -3 ||-2000 || 20
 |-
+|| mega|| -30 || -500 || 10
 |} <!-- END: style="vertical-align: top" -->
+- Richgar
-* Enemies that should have immunity to poison includes all poisonous or non-mortal enemies, such as snakes, poisonous rats, arachne, golems, liches, angels, skeletons, ents, and death.
+* Enemies that should have immunity to poison includes all poisonous or non-mortal enemies, such as snakes, poisonous rats, arachne, golems, liches, angels, skeletons, ents, and death. - Richgar
 ** Mostly agree with this point. Right away the undead seems like the obvious choice for immunity.
 * I kind of like the idea of poison weapons as temporary upgrades to existing weapons. Like have an npc upgrade it for some fee, and some amount of poison bottles. At some point in time, have it revert back to the plain weapon, or it could corrode away. ~[[User:Soniccuz|Soniccuz]]
 * If poison will be used as pure items for poisoning weapons, we should definitely think about decreasing the drop amount for poison. It's definitely too much and I guess there will not be any normal weapons anymore if just the normal one is used. - Bluelads4
+** I'm suggesting that poison will take time to apply to the weapon and requires players to equip the bottle and the weapon in each hand. I do agree that even by this method, normal poison bottles are a bit abundant, just by killing grass snakes. Even greater and deadly poison is a bit easy to get, by killing rats. I think we can reduce drop rates of stronger poisons, and balance their strength. Then we can have an apothecary NPC who takes many poison bottles and gives out one refined bottle for high level players. - Richgar
+* I came up with an equation for calculating infliction chance for poison.
+ '''[1-0.625/(Weapon*Poison)]*√(Weapon/6)*[DamageTaken/DefenderHP-(DamageTaken/DefenderHP)^2]^(1/15)''' where the Weapon and Poison values are:
+ '''Club 1.25; Axe 3; Sword 4.5; Arrow 6; Dagger 7; || Regular Poison 0.5; Greater 1.5; Deadly 2.5; Disease 4; Mega 9;'''
+The weapon values are based on the weapon's penetration and the poison values are based on the approximate strength. Regular poison is ineffective on club type weapons and all poisons are most effective with daggers. DamageTaken is the damage the defender takes from the melee hit (taken). DefenderHP is the health of the defender before the hit (similar to tempHP). The second part in brackets represents a downward parabola. So if no damage is taken, i.e. miss or block, or if the enemy is killed in one strike, there is no chance of inflicting poison. The greatest chance of inflicting poison is by using a dagger with mega poison and inflicting a devastating wound that halves the enemy's hp.
+Now that I look at this again, the half hp parabola I came up with seems like a weird idea. - Richgar
+==Resolutions==
+* Imorgen the young witch will be an NPC that has some relation to poison.
+* Damage caused by poison will not contribute to any kind of xp.
+* Poisonous or non-mortal enemies will be immune to poison. Golems will have a resistance to poison.
+* We're in favor to start off simple, so arrows will be the first weapon to feature poison.
 ==Related Feature Request posts==

Implementing Poison in Stendhal: Difference between revisions

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