Stendhal Development Meeting 2014-04-02: Difference between revisions

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On the 2<sup>nd</sup> we had a development meeting regarding recent changes to the Stendhal website and future plans. Please find a summary of the meeting below.
On the 2<sup>nd</sup> April 2014, we had a development meeting regarding recent changes to the Stendhal website and future plans. Please find a summary of the meeting below.



== New unified search ==
== New unified search ==
Line 6: Line 5:
* Mostly positive feedback
* Mostly positive feedback
* Sometimes it is unclear, why certain results are included and other are not shown: When you search for a black sword, the result shows the black giant but not one of the other ones who drop it. Black giant, however, is not shown because it drops "black sword", but because it has both words in its description: "You see a tall black giant. His armor and sword will hit you hard. Be prepared!"
* Sometimes it is unclear, why certain results are included and other are not shown: When you search for a black sword, the result shows the black giant but not one of the other ones who drop it. Black giant, however, is not shown because it drops "black sword", but because it has both words in its description: "You see a tall black giant. His armor and sword will hit you hard. Be prepared!"
* It might be a good idea to return the creature which drop a searched item. At least if it a rare item (e. g. not money).
* It might be a good idea to return the creature which drop a searched item. At least if it is a rare item (e. g. not money).
* It may be a good idea, to convert the search boxes for players, items, npcs, etc. to use the unified search as well, with a filter. For example a row of checkboxes like [_] Creature [_] Item [X] Player.
* It may be a good idea, to convert the search boxes for players, items, npcs, etc. to use the unified search as well, with a filter. For example a row of checkboxes like [_] Creature [_] Item [X] Player.
* Multiple people did not notice the new search box. It's not close to the item/player sections so it does not work as a reminder. Upper right hand corner seems to be used on many website. But that it is very far away from the focus of attention. We might want to move it into the World guide navigation box.
* Multiple people did not notice the new search box. It's not close to the item/player sections so it does not work as a reminder. Upper right hand corner seems to be used on many website. But that is very far away from the focus of attention. We might want to move it into the World guide navigation box.
* Actually, position of the search box may be a good path to another topic.
* Actually, position of the search box may be a good path to another topic.


== Content of start page ==
== How should the start page look like, in order to be attractive to new people as well as seasoned players? ==


* How should the start page look like, in order to be attractive to new people as well as seasoned players?
* At the moment, the start page has a lot of news, with quite a long history of old entries. New players are probably not interested in them.
* At the moment, the start page has a lot of news, with quite a long history of old entries. New players are probably not interested in them.
* More information about the game, not just the events that happen here
* More information about the game, not just the events that happen here
* Games stats, like how many rooms, how many creatures, how many maps and
* Games stats, like how many rooms, how many creatures, how many maps
* buzzwords like "free to play"
<!--
** free is in the center
[20:17] <hendrik> What kind of information should we provide for new people on the start page?
** we need a nice way to make it clear, that it is really free. There are many other games which claim "free to play", but than require you to buy items or tokens later on.
[20:17] <borgomatic> ... things like that?
** "Your current game only goes to level 99? Turn it all the way up to 597! Come play on Stendhal! Free and always will be!"
[20:17] <Bluelads4> and maybe making it a bit more "dynamic"
* content

** gallery with images and videos of the gameplaying at a more central place, as slideshows
[20:17] <slady> buzzwords like "free to play" :)
** show some items of our game, creatures, tutorial videos and other
[20:17] <Bluelads4> free is in the center :)
** basic information on how to understand the game
[20:17] <borgomatic> Yes! Free is alway good
** pictures of the most attractive animals such as pegasus
[20:18] <hendrik> Is there a nice way to make it clear, that it is really free. I have seen many games which claim "free to play", but than require you to buy items or tokens later on.
** make it more obvious, that there is more than one screenshot/video.

* dynamic
[20:17] <Carpiza> maybe a full gallery with images of the gameplaying?
** featuring an item, creature or npc every day/week, like Wikipedia's "Did you know?".
[20:18] <sakuraa> Could show some items of our game, creatures, tutorial videos and other
** choose one item to be shown on the site, and so on, it is also important to highlight the properties of it, such as strength and attack
[20:19] <sakuraa> Could also have some rules and basic information on how to understand the game
** popup-image library can do slideshows, so that would be easy to implement.
[20:19] <hendrik> Yes, we could move the screenshot and movie boxes to a more central place.
** use popups for videos, too
[20:19] <jorgemartin> You can put pictures of the most attractive animals such as pegasus
** slide-show images need roughly the same size. If you look through the current selection of screenshots, the window grows and shrinks a lot.
[20:19] <hendrik> And try to make it more obvious, that there is more than one screenshot/video.
** at the moment a click on the Movie-box throws you to a huge wiki page, we could think about using one of these videopages, except of youtube, for using direct links to an official account

** We should look into streaming Stendhal, perhaps for official tutorial, perhaps just for normal game play.
[20:21] <hendrik> About the dynamic part: What about featuring an item, creature or npc every day/week?
** Special front page for mobile devices might be a good idea, e. g. easy access to postman messages
[20:21] <hendrik> Something like Wikipedia's "Did you know?".
[20:22] <Bluelads4> and in relation to videos and screenshots: maybe some slideshows?
[20:23] <sakuraa> Every week, choose one item to be shown on the site, and so on, it is also important to highlight the properties of it, such as strength and attack
[20:23] <hendrik> I think the new popup-image library can do slideshows, so that would be easy to implement.
[20:23] <Bluelads4> what would be nice is to have some more tutorial videos or stuff like that but that needs some time actually
[20:23] <hendrik> We may need to use images which are roughly the same size. If you look through the current selection of screenshots, the window grows and shrinks a lot.
[20:24] <Bluelads4> and there is mostly just one player in *cough* :D
[20:24] <jorgemartin> sakura the idea is good, change each week the appearance of the page.
[20:24] <Bluelads4> at least when it's about the region/area screenshots and stuff
[20:25] <hendrik> Yes. And for the videos that already exists, we may find a way to make them more easy to pick. At the moment a click on the Movie-box throws you to a huge wiki page.
[20:25] <sakuraa> No need to change everything, but upgrade yes, that would leave more attractive and more interesting page
[20:27] <Bluelads4> We could think about using one of these videopages, except of youtube, for using direct links to an official account maybe? when it's about tutorials for example... or implementing a player. not sure though how that could be done
[20:27] <akiraa> you guys are 10 : D
[20:27] <Bluelads4> or if it can be done at all
[20:27] warace has joined Stendhal.
[20:27] <hendrik> I will look into embedding the player into the image popup.
[20:29] <Bluelads4> think at least the focus currently is on gameplay videos, when people want to inform themselves about a game
[20:29] <dustofatk> a website is the center and if u use others like youtube, twitter and so on it needs to directly bring to ur page too
[20:30] <borgomatic> "Your current game only goes to level 99? Turn it all the way up to 597! Come play on Stenhal! Free and always will be!"
-->

TODO


== Navigation menu ==
== Navigation menu ==
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** The complete menu exists in the html code, but is hidden via css, so still accessible to crawler.
** The complete menu exists in the html code, but is hidden via css, so still accessible to crawler.


== Integration of Wiki content ==
== Translation ==
* Examples [https://stendhalgame.org/player-guide/beginner-guide.html Beginner's Guide], [https://stendhalgame.org/quest/armor_for_dagobert.html Armor for Dagobert].

* Wiki integration into the website seems to work reasonable well.
* [https://translate.google.com/ Google Translate] is pretty good, but has privacy issue
* Dungeon information on the atlas still point to the wiki, will be fixed after the next Stendhal release
* Using a browser to translate text works more or less. Need to pay attention not to be killed in game for example
* Dungeon and read pages
* Integrating Google Translate costs about $40 per month.
** Still missing some information, please contribute
* More detailed discussion: https://sourceforge.net/p/arianne/feature-requests/1321/
** Some pages are using lots of information with a huge background story, others contain lots of items and stuff...
* Split of the quest page
** - Browser search does not work anymore because of the individual pages
** - Unified search box does not find "banker" or "banking" on a search for "bank"
** + Does not spoil all quests
** + Old page was too long to keep attention
* Linking related information
** Region pages should point to quests, needs manual work
** Item, creature and NPC pages should point to quests, might be generated automatically
** We might want to add keywords (e. g. region) to the quest pages, e. g. search for "bank" and get dagobert, the nalwor quests, ...
* What do we do with the wiki pages on items, creatures and npcs. They have little/some additional information to the normal wepages


== Other topics ==
== Is the new integration of Wiki content a good idea and working properly? ==
<!--
[20:38] <hendrik> As far as I can tell, it seems to work reasonable well.
[20:38] <hendrik> But please report any issue you find.
[20:39] <hendrik> I am talking about pages like https://stendhalgame.org/quest/armor_for_dagobert.html
[20:39] <Bluelads4> I think that if you click on the atlas/map and want to get information about a dungeon there with clicking on the entrance on the map, you are still guided to the wiki
[20:39] <Bluelads4> not sure if that should also be a link on the official page
[20:39] <hendrik> Yes, I think it should.
[20:40] <Bluelads4> there are still lots of area pages and dungeon pages which don't contain all information, haven't had time so far to look into that again
[20:40] <hendrik> Because of the way this information is gathered, it requires a Stendhal update.
[20:40] <dustofatk> i like the all in one pages more as i can use the search in browser to find things
[20:41] <hendrik> What about the unified search box?
[20:41] <dustofatk> never tried that
[20:41] <Bluelads4> and we should think about making these pages a bit more in-line, like using one style
[20:42] <slady> that is true
[20:42] <hendrik> Can you try to give an example about the style?
[20:43] <Bluelads4> like some are using lots of information with a huge background story, others contain lots of items and stuff... it's more about the content of the pages here what I mean :)
[20:43] <dustofatk> well the search dosnt work... at least unusable for more demanding stuff
[20:44] <dustofatk> if u want to find dagobert quest u search for bank... no offer for the dagobert quest
[20:44] gepaecktraeger2 has joined Stendhal.
[20:44] <dustofatk> if u search bank quest no dagobert offered
[20:45] <Bluelads4> you can search for dagobert and get the quest information
[20:45] <dustofatk> i dont know dagobert
[20:45] <dustofatk> i know there is a bank quest
[20:45] <Bluelads4> so you mean you want to search for a map name instead of a NPC for example?
[20:45] <dustofatk> im new i dont know names
[20:45] <martinf> hello :)
[20:45] <dustofatk> i was looking for the bank quest
[20:45] <Bluelads4> like you search for "bank" and get dagobert, the nalwor quests and stuff then? (just asking for understanding here :))
[20:46] <dustofatk> yes
[20:46] <dustofatk> but u dont get the dagobert quest
[20:46] <hendrik> The dagobert quest description does not contain the word "bank", so it is not found.
[20:46] <Bluelads4> so this would maybe be an issue of linking more words to the search filter thingy?
[20:46] <Horst> hallo
[20:46] <hendrik> It does contain "banker" and "baking" through.
[20:46] <dustofatk> right and thats an example why the all in one pages are better as u find that way with bank the dagobert quest
[20:47] Bluelads4 will add "bank" to the quest page :D
[20:47] <hendrik> that is an example, why it might make sense to find sub-words.
[20:47] <dustofatk> yes
[20:47] <hendrik> but I am afraid of too many false positives, at least without further research.
[20:48] <slady> and also the NPC pages can contain position information
[20:48] <hendrik> The Wiki search is kind of limited.
[20:49] <hendrik> The unified search uses a self written index for all the information it extracts from the server. But for the wiki pages, it uses the wiki search engine.
[20:49] <slady> one newby was chasing me asking where is Jenny recently
[20:49] <Bluelads4> maybe we should add the areas/regions/interior map names to the quest pages... might that maybe help for now? :)
[20:49] <hendrik> and then it merges the results form both sources.
[20:49] <Bluelads4> at least to catch the right results for quests
[20:50] <slady> area or region would help
[20:52] <Bluelads4> I can work around adding the information
[20:52] <Bluelads4> on the quest pages I mean
-->
TODO


* Translation
== We have about 10 minutes left. Are there other ideas to improve the website? ==
** [https://translate.google.com/ Google Translate] is pretty good, but has privacy issue
<!--
** Using a browser to translate text works more or less. Need to pay attention not to be killed in game for example
[20:52] <hendrik> Or perhaps even offers to help with the work on it?
** Integrating Google Translate costs about $40 per month.
[20:52] <borgomatic> I think we could make a special front page for mobile users.
** More detailed discussion: https://sourceforge.net/p/arianne/feature-requests/1321/
[20:52] <dustofatk> no promices...
* Mobile client
[20:53] <dustofatk> mobile is a need on its own
** first step is to work on a user interface design (e. g. touching a creature for attack will move the hand between the screen and the eyes).
[20:53] Bluelads4 raises her hand :D
** recoding the client would be a lot of work.
[20:53] <hendrik> Yes, mobile devices is something to be kept in mind when we redesign the front page.
[20:53] <dustofatk> not only page but also game
[20:53] <hendrik> While we are very far away from being able to play stendhal on mobile, it should be able to get information.
[20:53] <hendrik> Perhaps even read postman message.
[20:53] <Bluelads4> what I also named in the IRC was maybe trying to stream stendhal, not sure if that should happen in an official way (e.g. tutorials) or other stuff... wanted to think about that and if it can be used in a way.
[20:53] <dustofatk> because i would attrack a lot of ppl if there are versions for mobile
[20:54] <Bluelads4> the videos can be linked, too then
[20:54] <dustofatk> very far? i thought java 8 should make it easier
[20:54] <kiheru> getting again offtopic, but mobile version of the game requires a complete rewrite of the UI - which is most of the client
[20:55] <hendrik> Before we even think about code, we need to think about a usability concept.
[20:56] <hendrik> e. g. Stendhal is very heavy on NPC chat. And having to touch in the middle of the screen, e. g. to attack a creature, moves your hand between your eyes and the screen.
[20:57] <hendrik> Java 8 does not really add anything which makes it significantly easier to code for mobile devices.
[20:58] <slady> the whole HUD has to be redesined for mobile devices
-->
TODO


== Conclusion ==
== Conclusion ==
* Okay, thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas regarding the Stendhal website.
* Thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas regarding the Stendhal website. While we cannot add everything right away, the discussion was very helpful.
* While we cannot add everything right away, the discussions was very helpful.
* Thank you for attending this meeting.
* Thank you for attending this meeting.
* Feel free to join us in the [https://stendhalgame.org/chat arianne chat channel] and contribute

Latest revision as of 08:24, 7 April 2014

On the 2nd April 2014, we had a development meeting regarding recent changes to the Stendhal website and future plans. Please find a summary of the meeting below.

New unified search

  • There is now a search box in the upper right hand corner. It will find: Creatures, Items, Quests, Regions, Dungeons, pages from the manual and players.
  • Mostly positive feedback
  • Sometimes it is unclear, why certain results are included and other are not shown: When you search for a black sword, the result shows the black giant but not one of the other ones who drop it. Black giant, however, is not shown because it drops "black sword", but because it has both words in its description: "You see a tall black giant. His armor and sword will hit you hard. Be prepared!"
  • It might be a good idea to return the creature which drop a searched item. At least if it is a rare item (e. g. not money).
  • It may be a good idea, to convert the search boxes for players, items, npcs, etc. to use the unified search as well, with a filter. For example a row of checkboxes like [_] Creature [_] Item [X] Player.
  • Multiple people did not notice the new search box. It's not close to the item/player sections so it does not work as a reminder. Upper right hand corner seems to be used on many website. But that is very far away from the focus of attention. We might want to move it into the World guide navigation box.
  • Actually, position of the search box may be a good path to another topic.

Content of start page

  • How should the start page look like, in order to be attractive to new people as well as seasoned players?
  • At the moment, the start page has a lot of news, with quite a long history of old entries. New players are probably not interested in them.
  • More information about the game, not just the events that happen here
  • Games stats, like how many rooms, how many creatures, how many maps
  • buzzwords like "free to play"
    • free is in the center
    • we need a nice way to make it clear, that it is really free. There are many other games which claim "free to play", but than require you to buy items or tokens later on.
    • "Your current game only goes to level 99? Turn it all the way up to 597! Come play on Stendhal! Free and always will be!"
  • content
    • gallery with images and videos of the gameplaying at a more central place, as slideshows
    • show some items of our game, creatures, tutorial videos and other
    • basic information on how to understand the game
    • pictures of the most attractive animals such as pegasus
    • make it more obvious, that there is more than one screenshot/video.
  • dynamic
    • featuring an item, creature or npc every day/week, like Wikipedia's "Did you know?".
    • choose one item to be shown on the site, and so on, it is also important to highlight the properties of it, such as strength and attack
    • popup-image library can do slideshows, so that would be easy to implement.
    • use popups for videos, too
    • slide-show images need roughly the same size. If you look through the current selection of screenshots, the window grows and shrinks a lot.
    • at the moment a click on the Movie-box throws you to a huge wiki page, we could think about using one of these videopages, except of youtube, for using direct links to an official account
    • We should look into streaming Stendhal, perhaps for official tutorial, perhaps just for normal game play.
    • Special front page for mobile devices might be a good idea, e. g. easy access to postman messages

Navigation menu

  • Draft structure of navigation menu
    • Idea 1: screenshots and movies into media, world guide and player guide into guide
    • Idea 2: About (Screenshots, Videos), World Guide (regions, items, ...), Player Guide (how to play), Community (Chat, Hall of fame), and Development.
  • Drop down menu or keep the current always visible menus
    • Drop down menus make the webpage a bit more "active"
    • It will not be that full with headlines and tabs
    • It's used like that on many pages I think so people will know how to work with that
  • JavaScript is not an issue for crawlers (e. g. Google)
    • Drop down menus work without JavaScript by linking to a page with the sub menus. For example https://stendhalgame.org/world.html
    • The complete menu exists in the html code, but is hidden via css, so still accessible to crawler.

Integration of Wiki content

  • Examples Beginner's Guide, Armor for Dagobert.
  • Wiki integration into the website seems to work reasonable well.
  • Dungeon information on the atlas still point to the wiki, will be fixed after the next Stendhal release
  • Dungeon and read pages
    • Still missing some information, please contribute
    • Some pages are using lots of information with a huge background story, others contain lots of items and stuff...
  • Split of the quest page
    • - Browser search does not work anymore because of the individual pages
    • - Unified search box does not find "banker" or "banking" on a search for "bank"
    • + Does not spoil all quests
    • + Old page was too long to keep attention
  • Linking related information
    • Region pages should point to quests, needs manual work
    • Item, creature and NPC pages should point to quests, might be generated automatically
    • We might want to add keywords (e. g. region) to the quest pages, e. g. search for "bank" and get dagobert, the nalwor quests, ...
  • What do we do with the wiki pages on items, creatures and npcs. They have little/some additional information to the normal wepages

Other topics

  • Translation
  • Mobile client
    • first step is to work on a user interface design (e. g. touching a creature for attack will move the hand between the screen and the eyes).
    • recoding the client would be a lot of work.

Conclusion

  • Thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas regarding the Stendhal website. While we cannot add everything right away, the discussion was very helpful.
  • Thank you for attending this meeting.
  • Feel free to join us in the arianne chat channel and contribute
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