Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22/Result Log/Music: Difference between revisions

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{{Navigation for Stendhal Top}}
{{Navigation for Stendhal Top|Developing}}
{{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}}
{{Navigation for Stendhal Developers}}
{{TODO|Creation of this page is in progress. This is not a real chat log. Comments have been removed, sorted and edited.}}
{{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}}
{{Stendhal Development Meeting 2009-11-22}}
__TOC__
__TOC__


* there's a text on sound and music at [[Stendhal Sound]
* there's a text on sound and music at [[Stendhal Sound]]
* wiki page is quite old and needs to be updated
* wiki page is quite old and needs to be updated
{{clear}}
{{clear}}
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* main goal of music is to add ambient/atmosphere
* main goal of music is to add ambient/atmosphere
⚫
* music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value.
* there should be different music for cities, forest, dungeons
** storyteller made some great examples of this, see patch tracker
** storyteller made some great examples of this, see patch tracker
** some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow
** some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow
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** a jazz room was suggested, does it fit into the world?
** a jazz room was suggested, does it fit into the world?
* need to compromise between file size and loops being long enough not to get monotonic
* need to compromise between file size and loops being long enough not to get monotonic
* files provided and [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/music/ committed to CVS]
** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Deep_Forest.ogg Deep_Forest.ogg] (This music by storyteller from patch 2665588 is ideal for outdoors as it has bir..., 2009)
** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Demiurgo_ANewHomeland.ogg Demiurgo_ANewHomeland.ogg] (Added final version of demiurgos song, 2006 )
** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/music/Sacred_Moments.ogg Sacred_Moments.ogg] (This piece of music by storyteller from patch 2672345 has a majestic and serious..., 2009)
** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/music/The_Forsaken_Mine.ogg The_Forsaken_Mine.ogg] (This is written by storyteller, atmospheric background music ideal for caves or ..., 2009)
** [http://arianne.cvs.sf.net/viewvc/*checkout*/arianne/stendhal/data/music/The_Old_Tavern.ogg The_Old_Tavern.ogg] (This is written by storyteller, and he comments that ' This background soundtrac..., 2009)


⚫
== File Format ==
{{TODO|add link to patch tracker item}}


* mp3 is problematic
⚫
== File Format (needs summary) ==
* midi

⚫
** midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home
* miasma: we could take midi-files.
⚫
** midi and linux may be a problem
* vomit: in the wiki stood something about ogg
⚫
** midi would have a retro touch, like lufia or secret of mana or sth.
* vomit: would flac do it either?
* ogg
* vomit: i have one ambient track but it's in mp3
** midi files can be converted
⚫
* miasma: midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home
** prefered by many people
* blackfinix: convert it to ogg
⚫
** cannot get the range in midi files as you can in ogg
* blackfinix: ogg is open source
* blackfinix: flac is open source
* kiheru: with flac we would get rather large download sizes
* miasma: i'm for midi-files.
* vomit: flac would just be the source
* superkym: i'm pretty sure the wiki says what specifications we have, doesn't it say oggs?
* vomit: you could downsample it then for your own desired size
* blackfinix: a midi composition would work miasma. but i am not sure if he game can handle them
⚫
* plassy: midi and linux isn't a good idea
* humana: midi...
* blackfinix: if it was midi it would definitely have a retro sound to the game :)
* vomit: i think it should be ogg
* storyteller: do you think about 8-bit music?
* blackfinix: yes ogg is best bet
* storyteller: retro style? ;)
* plassy: full ack to ogg
⚫
* miasma: i think a retro touch like lufia or secret of mana or sth. is not bad for a game like these
* storyteller: thats right miasma
* vomit: but midis are tooooo oldschool
* miasma: i could try to make midi-files. thanks to guitar pro :D
⚫
* tigertoes: i dont think you can get the range in midi files as you can in ogg

⚫
== Other (needs summary) ==

* storyteller: no, I think we should not take music from anywhere...
* humana: storryteller what do you mean?
* plassy: what do you mean with anywhere?
* storyteller: well, to take it from any other source... Because of the copyright etc
* plassy: its a game
* humana: yes and a game has a background music
* humana: you can mute the music
* pepsz: more for example the people how you ignore can see why you ignore hem when try speak with you
* Oslsachem: music usually adds atmosphere to the game but not gameplay
* humana: so I don't know now... what do you think about a Blues or Jazz house?


* vomit: and there should be a soundtrack file, which you are able to download extra
* blackfinix: vomit yes ... like the sound files now
* superkym: adding music would still be rather a major change


* blackfinix: ok we can put that off for now, or create a ccommittee to look into it
* humana: who wrote music for stendhal already?
* superkym: it's not a minor thing which we can just make happen, it's a major thing needed, as far as i remember
* vomit: atmospheric sounds in ogg would be better
* miasma: but not your ambient music, vomit. i think ulthar isn't a good choice. in dreamscape maybe ;)
⚫
* Oslsachem: music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value.
* plassy: whats the problem with music... there is support for sound in java... or am I wrong?
* samson: I don't care about music / sounds as long as I can switch them off
* blackfinix: yes samson.
* plassy: so who did the original sound stuff?


== Controlling the music ==
== Controlling the music ==
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* the music files should be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are, but as a separate package
* the music files should be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are, but as a separate package
* streaming is considered to consume too much resources like bandwidth, streaming is not required for synchronizing
* streaming is considered to consume too much resources like bandwidth, streaming is not required for synchronizing
* plan
* plan:
*# Make mute persistent
*# Make /mute persistent ({{tracker|2880973}}).
*# include the sound files in stendhal-0.xx.zip (it made sense to have an extra download years ago when the music was twice as large as the client, but that is not true anymore)
*# include the sound files in stendhal-0.xx.zip (it made sense to have an extra download years ago when the music was twice as large as the client, but that is not true anymore)
*# include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0.xx.zip
*# include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0.xx.zip

⚫
== Other ==

* we need to be carefully when taking music from any other sources because they may be copyrighted although marked as free
* it should be possible to switch sound/music off
* music needs quite a bit of coding, the existing sound system needs some cleanup
* there are ogg files provided to test with, so the missing computer code is the show stopper


== Volunteers ==
== Volunteers ==

Latest revision as of 03:44, 1 March 2010


  • there's a text on sound and music at Stendhal Sound
  • wiki page is quite old and needs to be updated


Types of Music

  • main goal of music is to add ambient/atmosphere
  • music should be played adaptively according to the place and situation, to give it more value.
    • storyteller made some great examples of this, see patch tracker
    • some are very pretty and quiet and suitable for outdoors, a meadow
    • some are dark and scary like for a dungeon
    • a jazz room was suggested, does it fit into the world?
  • need to compromise between file size and loops being long enough not to get monotonic
  • files provided and committed to CVS
    • Deep_Forest.ogg (This music by storyteller from patch 2665588 is ideal for outdoors as it has bir..., 2009)
    • Demiurgo_ANewHomeland.ogg (Added final version of demiurgos song, 2006 )
    • Sacred_Moments.ogg (This piece of music by storyteller from patch 2672345 has a majestic and serious..., 2009)
    • The_Forsaken_Mine.ogg (This is written by storyteller, atmospheric background music ideal for caves or ..., 2009)
    • The_Old_Tavern.ogg (This is written by storyteller, and he comments that ' This background soundtrac..., 2009)

File Format

  • mp3 is problematic
  • midi
    • midi-files can be repeated the whole time aren't so big files and you can make them easy at home
    • midi and linux may be a problem
    • midi would have a retro touch, like lufia or secret of mana or sth.
  • ogg
    • midi files can be converted
    • prefered by many people
    • cannot get the range in midi files as you can in ogg

Controlling the music

  • music is played by client
  • on commands provided by the server
  • music should depended on zone, "atmosphere" property of zone that is sent to client
  • synchronization
    • there is an unwritten rule that all the players should see the same thing
    • problem: player A enters a zone, the music starts to play, player B enters 30 seconds later. For them to hear the same thing the music for player B has to start 30 seconds in
    • the music should fade in, there is no need to hear it from the start
    • music is not really part of the game world so it may be okay to start at the beginning every time, to make coding simpler for now
  • other triggers
    • there might be special music during a fight against a very strong monsters
    • it was suggested that music may be faster when low on health

Multiple programs with music

  • music should only be played if the Stendhal client is the active window
  • so when you have two clients open (for example while testing) you don't get a mess
  • a workaround would be to mute one client manually.
  • for example when the other music source is not related to Stendhal

Shipping Music Files

  • the music files should be shipped with the client, just like tiles and images are, but as a separate package
  • streaming is considered to consume too much resources like bandwidth, streaming is not required for synchronizing
  • plan:
    1. Make /mute persistent (#2880973).
    2. include the sound files in stendhal-0.xx.zip (it made sense to have an extra download years ago when the music was twice as large as the client, but that is not true anymore)
    3. include the music files in stendhal-FULL-0.xx.zip

Other

  • we need to be carefully when taking music from any other sources because they may be copyrighted although marked as free
  • it should be possible to switch sound/music off
  • music needs quite a bit of coding, the existing sound system needs some cleanup
  • there are ogg files provided to test with, so the missing computer code is the show stopper

Volunteers

  • storyteller and miasma volunteered to do the music
  • hendrik volunteered to fix /mute and include the sound files into the normal stendhal-0.xx.zip download, so that the music files can go into stendhal-FULL-0.xx.zip
  • plassy volunteered to do the java coding
  • it may be a good idea to join #arianne on irc freenode. Please ask there if you have any questions or issues.
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